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  • #31
    Well she came back in today. The owner's changed her haircut again-now they wanted me to take down her legs so she wouldn't be hot when they go to Florida this month. I sire was bummed to cut those legs I've been growing out. So I took an 0 down her skirt and legs this time and scissored them tight. OF course today she decided to be a booger instead of her normal sweet self but here's the finished product.

    http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/...leyflorida.jpg

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    • #32
      I typically do what the owner wants. What most people want on the cockers in my area is for their to be a noticeable difference in length between the pattern and the furnishings and to be able to easily see the pattern. Which means they usually want a 9 or a 10 on the pattern itself and it straight back (no blending) which no is not to the breed profile but that's what they want and what they like. So what I've found that works and makes them happy is to set the pattern about an inch give or take below the anus by going straight back all the way around (not on the chest as that would cut the dog). Most of my clients also don't like any hair on the top of the head either (they want it smooth) and they also don't like belveled feet either they want the legs done in straight down and just rounded off Now if the dog has skin problems, would mark up to much or has lots of wurts and such I will not go lower than a 7F (preferably a 5F).

      My personal dog however is groomed the way I want him, which is a 7F blended cocker clip, with a nice pretty head and belveled feet Keep in mind that I was hand stipping him but didn't like it on him and am still learning how to do it as well and with a 5F it was way to long for my taste. The 7F on him still to me looks natural and gives me the look I want.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by MagikAshes View Post
        I typically do what the owner wants. What most people want on the cockers in my area is for their to be a noticeable difference in length between the pattern and the furnishings and to be able to easily see the pattern. Which means they usually want a 9 or a 10 on the pattern itself and it straight back (no blending) which no is not to the breed profile but that's what they want and what they like. So what I've found that works and makes them happy is to set the pattern about an inch give or take below the anus by going straight back all the way around (not on the chest as that would cut the dog). Most of my clients also don't like any hair on the top of the head either (they want it smooth) and they also don't like belveled feet either they want the legs done in straight down and just rounded off Now if the dog has skin problems, would mark up to much or has lots of wurts and such I will not go lower than a 7F (preferably a 5F).

        My personal dog however is groomed the way I want him, which is a 7F blended cocker clip, with a nice pretty head and belveled feet Keep in mind that I was hand stipping him but didn't like it on him and am still learning how to do it as well and with a 5F it was way to long for my taste. The 7F on him still to me looks natural and gives me the look I want.
        you have the most unusually specific clients ive ever heard of. its rare that a customer even notices things like bevelled feet vs pet feet... and unblended pattern lines are a strange request. ive had old ladies request that with terriers, but i'd say that 90% of EVERY client ive worked with in the last 7 years met my enthusiastic request to make Buffy look like a show dog with an emphatic "OKAY!". Granted, i tend to listen to customer reqyests, read between the lines, and do what i think looks best anyway... very few people care either way, and everyone wants their dog to look well-groomed... its my job to show them what constitutes "well-groomed!"

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        • #34
          FunkyPuppy:

          They don't literally state it as I put it on the post. I was being specific on the post to explain what they want as it would mean to us as I am talking to other groomers. They don't know what belveled feet are but they will tell me stuff like...I don't want the nails showing at all, I want the legs full and all the same length, I don't want the feet short like a poodle (yes, there is a big difference but to them their isn't). As for the pattern they will say they want it to the skin, or really short, I want to be able to see the difference and stuff like that. And they want the line to be completely even all the way around because they are sure if it's not a straight line then I'm doing it wrong (rolling my eyes). With that in mind I had a cocker come in a few years back that asked me to make it look like a cocker (has never been groomed before) and wanted a real cocker spaniel clip just like a show dog. So I did the show lines, the blending and so on like it should be and did her with a 7f because they wanted short but not really short. I got a call not long after she picked her up with the owner screaming at me and telling me that my lines are not even, they are not straight, places are higher than others and that I don't know what I am doing and that I'm an idiot. It didn't matter how much I explained why what I did was right, nothing I said mattered. She was right and I ruined her dog. (once again rolling my eyes...lol)

          Now yes I've had some that will let me make the dog look like it actually should but typically I get people have a photo in their mind and won't let me change it.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by MagikAshes View Post
            FunkyPuppy:

            They don't literally state it as I put it on the post. I was being specific on the post to explain what they want as it would mean to us as I am talking to other groomers. They don't know what belveled feet are but they will tell me stuff like...I don't want the nails showing at all, I want the legs full and all the same length, I don't want the feet short like a poodle (yes, there is a big difference but to them their isn't). As for the pattern they will say they want it to the skin, or really short, I want to be able to see the difference and stuff like that. And they want the line to be completely even all the way around because they are sure if it's not a straight line then I'm doing it wrong (rolling my eyes). With that in mind I had a cocker come in a few years back that asked me to make it look like a cocker (has never been groomed before) and wanted a real cocker spaniel clip just like a show dog. So I did the show lines, the blending and so on like it should be and did her with a 7f because they wanted short but not really short. I got a call not long after she picked her up with the owner screaming at me and telling me that my lines are not even, they are not straight, places are higher than others and that I don't know what I am doing and that I'm an idiot. It didn't matter how much I explained why what I did was right, nothing I said mattered. She was right and I ruined her dog. (once again rolling my eyes...lol)

            Now yes I've had some that will let me make the dog look like it actually should but typically I get people have a photo in their mind and won't let me change it.
            well, shame on you for ruining a perfectly good dog! rumor has it if you give a dog a "bad" haircut, all of her puppies will be born with that bad haircut! and if you put a cocker pattern on a schnauzer she'll have schnocker puppies!

            its true, i heard it on Fox News.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by SilverStarWing View Post
              Im surprised no one else useds a #10. For cocker cuts thats all we use out here. Its what the corps taught us (10 years ago) and what my manager from Illinois did (who was never corp trained). I figured this was a norm. I see it is not.
              I have always used a #10 on Schnauzers. That is how everyone in the Palm Springs area likes them. I don't groom in Palm Springs anymore, but every groomer I know grooms schnauzers the same way. For Cockers I never go shorter than a 7F

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              • #37
                Well, Funky...I had a groomer who also listened to customer requests and then proceeded to do whatever cut he thought was appropriate and he found his way out of a job very quickly....I'm all for grooming to standards in competitions, but when your dealing with pets, you better cut the way a customer requests...IMO

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Rossi View Post
                  I have always used a #10 on Schnauzers. That is how everyone in the Palm Springs area likes them. I don't groom in Palm Springs anymore, but every groomer I know grooms schnauzers the same way. For Cockers I never go shorter than a 7F
                  Haha, I used to work in Redlands and had a few palm spring schnauzers come to me. No #10's here baybeh!


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                  There are 3 different kinds of people in this world: Dog people, cat people, and rational people who don't have a problem liking two things at the same time.

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                  • #39
                    HAHAHA! Funky,

                    I had a client years ago tell me that they were told that if their dog got bred by a different breed of dog that their dog would never again be purebred and would not ever produce a purebred litter of pups no matter what they were bred to! Yes that's right people are really that stupid.

                    I also had a good ol' country boy tell me not to clip his dog's nails and if I could to even file them into points, because the dog needs them to fight off the coyotes.

                    BOTH PEOPLE WERE DEAD SERIOUS. Not joking at all. You can imagine the look on my face with both of them.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by MagikAshes View Post
                      I also had a good ol' country boy tell me not to clip his dog's nails and if I could to even file them into points, because the dog needs them to fight off the coyotes.
                      I had a lady complain about her walk-in nail grinding a few weeks ago. I did notice that the dog was a wiggly butt, and that my newer bather had done it, so I went out to take a look.

                      I asked her if they were left too long, and I knelt to look at the dog. She stated that they were "all wrong, she took all the black off the ends." What? The nails looked fine to me, but I like seriously short nails, so I would have personally done them shorter. I took the dog back, and did them in my incredibly OCD short and round way. Nope, still wrong. They were all grey. Yes. The nails were all grey. Well... yeah, I ground the ends off. She said that the other groom shop ground across the left, then across the right, leaving a point, and that was the correct way. Then she said "They have to be done right- he's a show dog."

                      I was sort of left speechless there. Who shows their dog with their nails GROUND TO A POINT? I explained why this was healthiest for the feet, and that I'd never done a show dog with pointy nails. And she finished by asking if I could grind them to a point next time, if she asked for it specially. Ummm hmmm...

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                      • #41
                        LOL. Moo what an moron that woman is I think you handled it right and there isn't anything more than you could do. Amazing how stupid people really can be and how right they are sure they are, isn't it?

                        Another funny story: I used to do a cocker spaniel that was a choc and white parti color. The woman was never happy with how the dog looked or was groomed no matter what I did later I figured out why when I had finally had it and straight out asked her, because and get this I am not making this up, joking or anything: SHE COULD SEE HIS SPOTS!

                        Now how in the hell and I supposed to get rid of the spots on a spotted dog????

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                        • #42
                          Spots ha! Got any dog show chalk lying around? Make him brown allover.. Look no spots just like you wanted!
                          Last edited by JOLIE; 12-09-13, 12:37 AM.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Rossi View Post
                            Well, Funky...I had a groomer who also listened to customer requests and then proceeded to do whatever cut he thought was appropriate and he found his way out of a job very quickly....I'm all for grooming to standards in competitions, but when your dealing with pets, you better cut the way a customer requests...IMO
                            ya know, in my (admittedly few in comparison to some of my peers) years of grooming, through two different states, with two ENTIRELY different kinds of "local preference"... ive never had a problem slowly changing styles on a client's dog. very few have ever noticed when their schnauzer went from a 10 on the back to an 8.5. my LARGE westie clientele cant figure out what i do differently than other groomers (i use a 2 or 4 cc, not a 7, and i take that pattern down where it belongs!).

                            i guess maybe im just lucky.

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                            • #44
                              Quoting Rossi "Well, Funky...I had a groomer who also listened to customer requests and then proceeded to do whatever cut he thought was appropriate and he found his way out of a job very quickly....I'm all for grooming to standards in competitions, but when your dealing with pets, you better cut the way a customer requests...IMO" end quote

                              Originally posted by funkypuppy View Post
                              ya know, in my (admittedly few in comparison to some of my peers) years of grooming, through two different states, with two ENTIRELY different kinds of "local preference"... ive never had a problem slowly changing styles on a client's dog. very few have ever noticed when their schnauzer went from a 10 on the back to an 8.5. my LARGE westie clientele cant figure out what i do differently than other groomers (i use a 2 or 4 cc, not a 7, and i take that pattern down where it belongs!).

                              i guess maybe im just lucky.

                              Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
                              Same here! People come to you because they like what you do. If they don't like it they can go down the street to the groomer who does 10's on cockers, schnauzers or Westies. People don't know what they want and I rarely if EVER get a request so specific I couldn't modify it.

                              I have had people say shorter shorter shorter. I simply tell them a 7 is as short as I go, period. Unless it's matted to the skin, that's it. Go down the road, I'm not doing it.

                              I refuse to shave labs. Even when I worked for a salon in Vegas where labs get shaved all the time I didn't lose my job. I flat out told the employer that I would not do them at the interview. It was not a problem, the other groomers just did it.
                              Last edited by cockerlvr; 12-09-13, 07:44 AM.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Moo View Post
                                I had a lady complain about her walk-in nail grinding a few weeks ago. I did notice that the dog was a wiggly butt, and that my newer bather had done it, so I went out to take a look.

                                I asked her if they were left too long, and I knelt to look at the dog. She stated that they were "all wrong, she took all the black off the ends." What? The nails looked fine to me, but I like seriously short nails, so I would have personally done them shorter. I took the dog back, and did them in my incredibly OCD short and round way. Nope, still wrong. They were all grey. Yes. The nails were all grey. Well... yeah, I ground the ends off. She said that the other groom shop ground across the left, then across the right, leaving a point, and that was the correct way. Then she said "They have to be done right- he's a show dog."

                                I was sort of left speechless there. Who shows their dog with their nails GROUND TO A POINT? I explained why this was healthiest for the feet, and that I'd never done a show dog with pointy nails. And she finished by asking if I could grind them to a point next time, if she asked for it specially. Ummm hmmm...
                                Three words: black nail polish. Lol
                                Honestly, I know exactly what's she's talking about, but that gray goes back to black in about one day. It was also re-black if you rub oil on the nails. Not exactly a career-ruiner.

                                Next time try grinding the nails before the bath--often simply washing off the nail powder really minimizes the gray.

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