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  • Norfolk Haircut?

    So one of our regular clients just got a new puppy! The woman has only ever had westies, and always no less than 4 dogs. About a year or so ago one of her dogs passed away and it took her until now to bring herself to get a replacement. She wound up straying from her normal westy pattern and got herself the CUTEST little norfolk puppy!

    The thing is, we've never groomed one before! That's not surprising for me, I've only been doing this for a little while, but my boss who's been grooming for eons has never done one, either! From what we've looked up, there isn't much of a haircut for the breed, is there? We don't do hand stripping at our shop, so that's out. Is there a pattern for a dog like that, or is it pretty much tighten up the legs, trim the strays, & call it a day? That's all we did this time, since she's only about 4 months old, but if she's going to get an "adult" haircut, we'd like to start next time she comes in. Thanks!

  • #2
    First of... if you don't hand strip... LEARN! Norfolk hair is VERY easy to pull.

    Norfolks and Norwich look HORRIBLE clipped!

    Here is a site for grooming the Norfolk. There's also Norwich on there for you to look at. BASICALLY the same idea... the head is just a little different

    http://www.wildgooseterriers.com/nor...ng_photos1.htm

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    • #3
      While I have never personally learned to strip, the woman I work for said she apprenticed under someone who had her doing nothing but stripping while she worked there. She said it was a valuable experience, and she learned a lot, but she also knows that we just don't have the time for it at our shop. We're pretty high volume with a fast turn around so hand stripping just doesn't fit into our schedule. That's the reason we no longer take any standard poodles (except a couple old clients who are just shave-downs) or other high maintenance dogs. It's not a matter of being lazy, not knowing how to do it, or not having an interest in learning; it's all about what's profitable. Our clients wouldn't want to pay what we would have to charge for long jobs where we could do a few dogs in that same time. I know it kinda sucks, and I'm going to have to learn more on my own at some point, but as it stands, we just won't be hand stripping this dog.

      That said, any ideas on how to clip her? I can see what you mean about the stripped version of the coat not coming out well in a clipped variety. If you were backed up against a wall, gun to your head, though, what would you do? Should we do some general de-scruffing, or should we take any kind of blade to her?

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      • #4
        agreed!

        don't mess this little guy up- get in touch with the breeder and learn- color texture style is sacrificed and the charm is lost if you clipper it. For now, do a sanitary and start handling the dog, brush and comb, blow dry only with the grain- never against. You can use a Coat King to help loosen under coat if you don't damage the wire jacket. Careful- when in doubt use thinning shears.
        That link Scot sent you is the one sent to me by the breeder of a pup I got recently and is an excellent overview- unfortunately it is difficult to grasp unless you get some hands on direction. Worth every thing you have do to learn.
        I do lots of these pets- they are the jewels of the terrier world- small gene pools and long waiting lists- stringent requirements for ownership by breeders. Most Breeders are thrilled to find a good groomer for these pets. Norfolks are usually calmer than Norwich so you lucked out there- they can be very temperamental.
        They are rarely sent to grooming salons...

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        • #5
          I do two Norfolks and just follow the patterns in the Notes From the Grooming Table book. Both owners were happy with my work. It's pretty similar to a Westie/Scottie (at least the body/legs) but the backs look very unnatural shaved short like a Westie/Scottie. Here's my experience:

          You don't need to know how to handstrip to do a pet Norfolk. Out of the 2 I do, one is thicker than the other. The thicker one I wasn't pleased the first time when I shaved his back with a 7 like a Westie/Scottie. The owner was pleased and called me 3 months later to book again (I thought it was too long but he wasn't in bad shape at all, they stay pretty natural, he had no matting, etc). I asked the owner how he wanted him done and he said just like before, he looked great, so I did. I tried to strip/card him a little more than I did the last time before I clipped and he came out a little better, but still wasn't pleased with the drastic color and texture change in the coat after I shaved off the nice coarse hair (soft yellow/tan back and coarse red/tan furnishings!).

          I got a call last month for another one and did her 2 weeks ago. She had a lighter coat and I asked the owner if she gets her clipped or not and she said whatever I think, she doesn't care. So I did a lot of carding with the rakes (Coat King, etc) and FURMinator with some ear powder (for extra pull) before the bath and then went over her back with a snap on after the bath and blended in the skirt. Did the legs and face and some other areas with blending shears (straight shears around the feet at first because they were SO over grown then shaped with the blenders) and a #10/#15 blade on the top of his head and ears as showed in the Notes book.

          She came out AMAZING! She looked handstripped, kept her color and course coat, I was so proud of her! She rescheduled. So now, the owner of the other Norfolk called me to schedule and I'm doing him next Wednesday and I'm excited since I just did the other one so nicely. I'm planning on working a little harder at stripping/carding him, then I'll try a snap on. I know he won't come out as nice as the little girl did because he is so much thicker, but anything to make the back to skirt/legs transition smoother.

          I would just follow the Notes book, look at some full color pictures of the Norfolk (my second customer with the lighter coated girl insisted on showing me her Norfolk calendar and it helped me to see how natural the cut is supposed to look) and try your hand and some light stripping. You can do mostly carding using the Coat Kings or similar rakes and the FURminater, and depending on how often she gets the dog done, just do that, or clip over it like I did. Can't wait to play around with this Norfolk on Wednesday!

          Good luck!!!

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          • #6
            I don't strip either, but any terrier breed I still furminate and use coat kings to help pull out undercoat...I do pick at it a little here and there, like on the face, if the hair will come out easily. I scissor/scissor finish using thinning shears and they all look natural and it keeps their coat rough-looking enough.

            Now, if an owner wanted specifically 'show grooming' or asks for hand stripping, I would never tell them that what I do is good enough, because I really don't know.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Wolfenstein View Post
              While I have never personally learned to strip, the woman I work for said she apprenticed under someone who had her doing nothing but stripping while she worked there. She said it was a valuable experience, and she learned a lot, but she also knows that we just don't have the time for it at our shop. We're pretty high volume with a fast turn around so hand stripping just doesn't fit into our schedule. That's the reason we no longer take any standard poodles (except a couple old clients who are just shave-downs) or other high maintenance dogs. It's not a matter of being lazy, not knowing how to do it, or not having an interest in learning; it's all about what's profitable. Our clients wouldn't want to pay what we would have to charge for long jobs where we could do a few dogs in that same time. I know it kinda sucks, and I'm going to have to learn more on my own at some point, but as it stands, we just won't be hand stripping this dog.

              That said, any ideas on how to clip her? I can see what you mean about the stripped version of the coat not coming out well in a clipped variety. If you were backed up against a wall, gun to your head, though, what would you do? Should we do some general de-scruffing, or should we take any kind of blade to her?
              I wouldn't clip her. back to the wall gun to my head... I'd say PULL THE TRIGGER! Do you have coat kings? I'd rather see that than a blade put to the dog's body. Proper hand stripping can be done on a regular basis. A hand strip norfolk doesn't take that much more time than to take a blade to the dog, ruin it's coat and potentially the skin, just so that the shop owner can squeeze in one more haircut. QUALITY over QUANITY!

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              • #8
                Hey, you don't have to clip OR strip. Just do a Bath & Brush on the dog. I've seen a Norwich this way and it's DARLING!!! I do a number of Cairn terrier B&B's as well and their hair doesn't grow to the floor, they just look darling! I would do a teeny bit of stripping/carding for the health of the skin and coat, but I don't think you "have" to do any sort of pattern, necessarily.

                Tammy in Utah
                Groomers Helper Affiliate

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                • #9
                  I'd follow the notes from the grooming table's suggestions. I think it'd be the short legged terrier pattern, only leave it a little longer.

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                  • #10
                    dont clip!!!

                    I fully argee with Scott!!! I had never fully handstripped one before this summer and well When my darling Tucker came in I knew the basics of hand strippping from school and loved it so I took a hugh leap and called a few Breeders (ended up talking to his lol) and now I hand strip him every groom.... I only do a little at a time the first time I completely stripped him down to his jacket and well that was 4 months ago he still looks stunning I love the look the feel and the rich color of his coat....

                    he still comes in once a month for touch ups and bathing and it is no more time for me to groom him than it would for me to groom a clipped standard poodle.( lol yep I take my sweet time and kiss and tell him how wonderful he is and waste a lot of time cuddling) I have found that hand stripping is what refreshed my grooming and desire to be a groomer ( think I am twisted I love hand stripping terriers and springers for show I find it relaxing)

                    as for the time it takes ummmmm a norfolk terrier will hand strip out in about 45 minutes IF the coat is ready you just do it before you bath and well IF your shop doesnt allow you that time then do the dog a service and refur it to someone that will hand strip the dog.

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                    • #11
                      Strip

                      I agree with Mr. Terrier. I do a couple of norfolks that I handstrip. I had someone once call me to do one that they didn't want to pay to have stripped. I turned them down and told them that I just wouldn't reck the dogs coat like that. Knowing what taking a blade will do to that coat, I just couldn't destroy it like that. If stripping is not an option, then I would say IMO just to leave the coat and do sanitary and feet trimming. Good Luck!!!

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                      • #12
                        Mr Terrier is funny and speaks the truth!!!!!!! I used to do one years ago and made the mistake of clipping (its what they wanted I knew almost nothing) anyhow, be prepared for wanting to back yourself against the wall anyways if I remember right mine was best summed up as completely insane. You know the kind of dog that could jump from the table to a chandler and challenge you to groom her there upside down etc…. She always peed when she was done too, and rolled in it (she was probably protesting the 5 blade etc and the fact that she was lighter and softer than [email protected]@ because of it). Seriously strip the coat!!! It is almost faster than clipping if that is an issue

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                        • #13
                          Due to a hand/wrist injury, I don't strip much of anything. Certainly don't strip a whole dog. Not only that, no one in my area would be willing to pay what I'd charge if I did.

                          I do use a Furminator and Coat King before the bath, then use a snap on to clip. These dog's are pets. They look fine. Owners are happy, and that's what counts.

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                          • #14
                            Shoot me shoot me

                            I clipper one geriatric Norwich with a slipped disk- we call her Cujo- I keep her in a 7 skip tooth all over, 10 the ears and thinning shear the furnishings and head (short)- but it's the only way to keep her from hurting her back so I do it quickly to avoid losing a hand! Don't try to make a westie or cairn out of it- ouch!
                            Coat kings will work fairly well as attested to here- but terriers are rarely done justice in a high volume, cash hungry business- fact most dogs do better with more TLC and less of a ka-ching environment.
                            When cheaper is better it's Not my style or my client.
                            I just never heard of one of this breed belonging to someone whose style it is... If you can't do it due to your own limitations it would be fair to find someone who can-
                            it buys good will, and good Karma.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Helly View Post
                              Due to a hand/wrist injury, I don't strip much of anything. Certainly don't strip a whole dog. Not only that, no one in my area would be willing to pay what I'd charge if I did.

                              I do use a Furminator and Coat King before the bath, then use a snap on to clip. These dog's are pets. They look fine. Owners are happy, and that's what counts.
                              I guess I'm just not greedy enough to "ruin" a dog's coat and even risk something that's so easy to do. If a groomer doesn't have time to do a dog correctly, then the dog should be sent to someone that CAN!

                              If groomers took the time to educate, owners would be even happier and usually will pay!
                              Last edited by Mr.Terrier; 03-08-08, 04:43 PM.

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