Mouthwash as Ear Cleaner??

[GroomersGotStyle]

Alright.. I always thought that the best thing for a dog's ears is dog ear cleaner. I think that's pretty much the only thing I would be comfortable using on my dogs because I know it's safe.. I went to the back of the shop to put away a dog I'd just finished two days ago and noticed that the bather was using q-tips doused in human antiseptic mouth wash.

Good? Bad? Neutral?

Lol, I'm just wondering because I can't get my mind off it.. >.< I was a little horrified, honestly, but I figured I should ask the truth of it.

[windywaycavaliers]

Well, most mouthwash has alcohol it out,,,"ouch"....and/or peroxide in it--which is awful to put into a dog's ears in a grooming salon environment. No--not my idea of ear cleaner,,but I have been wrong before, so...

[JMarti521]

peroxide

Out here, one of the soldiers complained about having water in his ears for a few days. He went to Medical and they put some peroxide in his ear and the water fizzed up and out. He felt better right away. I'm just guessing it can't be that bad for dog, but I'm not a doctor.

[Smart-n-Pretty]

Lysterine has thymol in it which is an anti fungal. It is 25% alcohol so I dunno if that uis enough to get the water out.

[lorie]

When my kids were little , we used a swimmers ear remedy. Half Hydrogen peroxide, half alcohol.
Alcohol dries, hydro kills the germs, or something like that..

[windywaycavaliers]

From what I have learned, the problem with peroxide is that is bubbles- this creates a large amount of surface area for yeast and bacteria, etc. to grow on in a very small amount of space. It also kills off living tissue. When you couple this with the intricate makeup of a dog's ear canal-with its deep loops and arches, these bubbles can become trapped in the ear canal at the point of equal pressure--or the point of the ear canal where the pressure is equal from in front of the object washed inside, and the pressure from the trapped air behind what is washed inside. Meaning that an air pocket, complete with either peroxide, yeast and ear wax, water and soap or trapped lake water and all it carries in it, will sit there and basically ferment. This is an extremely simple explanation to how some ear infections start; other times it is foreign objects, an open sore from scratching, etc. but the idea that this liquid can become trapped in the curve of the ear canal in my opinion is true. I am always open to an education, though!

[Particentral]

Many of the old time homemade remedies for ear cleaners have peroxide in them. I use it to flush out ears that are particularly grungy per vets orders. Older vet, said its been working forever.

WIndy, I would think if you were using it everyday it might be an issue, but to use once a month or so, or even once a week, at the percentages in the stuff we can get, it is likely to be fine. I have never seen IT or water cause an ear infection.....

[Windswept]

In all my years of practice, using human mouthwash for an ear cleaner for dogs will never happen. Perhaps it's because of the pH suitability of it or that it has way too much alcohol in it. But either way, labeled ear cleaner for dogs is indicated as your safest and most comfortable product to use when it comes to our clients' dogs. Just my opinion.

[SwissNChow]

I think I would much rather communicate with owners that we used dog ear cleaner on their dog's ears. I don't want to be in on that discussion when the client mentions to their vet that the groomer uses mouthwash on their dog's ears.

Really, products labeled for dogs are the best products for us all to be using on clients dogs. I think it is one thing for you to use off label products on your own animals, but entirely different for you to use off label products on someone elses.

[GroomersGotStyle]

Thanks for all the replies.

We used to used hydrogen peroxide for my ears to get water out as well.

I feel the same - I would much rather say I used dog ear cleaner than mouth wash. It's a..uhm.. Not so awesome salon, though, so yea.. I was just wondering. It's been bothering me super bad...

[RevWind]

I could be wrong, but I think Espree's ear cleaner has alcohol in it and it's the best cleaner I've found yet. Love that stuff.

[Particentral]

MOST ear cleaners are alcohol based. Its funny to me. The less time you have been a groomer they more you think you HAVE to use things labled for dogs, in most cases those of us who have been around a while remember when Ivory or Lux was used routinely as basic shampoo in MANY places! Dogs didn't die from it either! LOL

[Kindredkiss]

Peroxide will burn the tissue inside the ear , just like it can do on people. I would never put that in any of my dogs ears. I do use Spearmint Alcohol on the outside of the ears if there is no debris. If the ears are dirty I use Vets Best ear flush which I dont particularly like but its all I have at the moment. The problem I have with it is that is labled for use in dogs AND cats however it contains tea tree oil which can be toxic to cats. So needless to say I will be looking for a new cleaner once this one is gone

[windywaycavaliers]

Look out,,,Chris is off on a tangent again...

Many of the old time homemade remedies for ear cleaners have peroxide in them. I use it to flush out ears that are particularly grungy per vets orders. Older vet, said its been working forever.

WIndy, I would think if you were using it everyday it might be an issue, but to use once a month or so, or even once a week, at the percentages in the stuff we can get, it is likely to be fine. I have never seen IT or water cause an ear infection.....

I agree, but since we only see clients here and there, using something like simple homemade remedies (let's more importantly not confuse actual therapeutic ingredients being used for their abilities versus using things off the shelf to save money and increase our clear profit) may not adequately address the issues or be effective enough to move a client along in the right direction in one visit every other week, or 3 or 4 or 8--or 10- especially without follow up and at home care.
The idea behind using a product being OK since it is only on occasion, isn't a safe enough reason to get me to do it.
And why really do we need to cut such corners? If we are having to save money because we can't afford to use the topicals that are made specifically for our profession, then there's a lot more wrong in the equation- and that is part of what keeps out profession from being professional--and adds to the "liability on a groomer's butt" each day we keep doing those things in our salons. What is really lacking is either with one's business sense and realizing their true ability, one's ethical honesty, or one's simple lack of education in what they are doing. But if one cares to, these things are changeable.
We all know that if we are using our own topicals on canine clients, and they aren't made for canines, there is certainly liability there on our end if something does go wrong. And if we are making our own home made remedies where each ingredient is known and has a purpose for that which we are using it for, then there is still added liability there, BUT--we at least know all of the ingredients, what they do, and even simply how to pronounce them. To keep it safe, we should all be using canine specific products. BUT--if we are looking at using alternative methods and tools, we should put some fierce education and knowledge behind it.
Whether something goes wrong or not, if we are going to push the bar in an industry that is already unregulated--and we are the ones at greater risk since we are the care providers--we need to be doing it for #1 the "right" reasons that we can back up and explain in the event of a mishap, and #2 with the knowledge of what we are doing and why.
Everyone on here who reads my long winded schpeels on "encompassing grooming", and more integrated care in the salon, knows I take a stance that we can and should be open to seeing our clients get the best care by all means and being that source of added care by educating ourselves. I am not and have NEVER said to cut corners or slop some things together and give it a try.
I want to add,,, and I know I am going to get a load of snappy comebacks but I am sincerely NOT trying to be a grooming snob, I am trying to make people THINK about why they are really using a "human product on dogs in the salon". Those that do this have that right--obviously, but when groomers go out and grab White Rain and Suave shampoo because it is cheap and "smells really good" and they can make more profit off of each groom by using crud, that's not taking one's profession very seriously. Cosmetologists don't use or advise the use of Pantene or Pert, why again is that? Its not because they are a snobby regime of brainwashed consumers with a piece of paper on the wall. Its not because they have any agenda to continue the sale of overpriced items, or to keep you coming back and thereby securing their income. It is because they got an education, one that they are proud to share with the clients that come to them for care, and one that is based in scientific development- and we can follow a bit of that suite for ourselves if we do it the right and honorable way.
Our industry is basically unregulated, we have no way to "formally" prove our level of both education or right to use certain products in the eyes of most any law. And the laws that are in place are not applied based on a program that has a set of guidelines that both require of and protect us.
Cheap shampoo is just cheap shampoo, ****** dog food is just ****** dog food, etc., so why use it? Some people have to use cheap and ****** products because that is all they can afford. Heaven knows I have fed my dogs Purina food if it was all I could afford at the time,,but I still knew better. And in our salons, the point should not be to use cheap stuff to save a buck, we are professionals and we should be able to afford some pride.
Whether sold at WalMart (and that includes their line of pet shampoos and pesticides and ****** dog foods), or only to licensed cosmetologists, or only to groomers and pet owners via catalogue or trade show, a tool that we use should be one that we understand and use for a purpose--not to save money. So,,my ONLY point to all of this is that if we are using things like peroxide, or Dawn or Herbal Essences, ask ourselves honestly- WHY? Only we know the truthful answer, and only we will be the one's held accountable if we run into trouble.
Again, I am NOT A SNOB. Each person is at their own place in their careers and ability, and everyone has their right to do as they wish. I also know that some things off the shelf like peroxide and witch hazel and cornstarch are genuine tools and have actual benefits, and I use them myself. I am just against grabbing things like Listerine when we are out of something made specifically for that purpose.
And have you ever used Listerine,,that stuff is painful! And what happens when you get Dawn or "GOOP" in a dog's eye? These are some seriously 'roided up products!!--they are using industrial strength amounts of products and they cause serious injury when misused. And we are putting this stuff on a 4 pound Pomeranian because it has oily ears? Holy cow, Batman!
We just have to be careful people, we have to use our heads, and we have to do the honest thing by our clients.

[windywaycavaliers]

MOST ear cleaners are alcohol based. Its funny to me. The less time you have been a groomer they more you think you HAVE to use things labled for dogs, in most cases those of us who have been around a while remember when Ivory or Lux was used routinely as basic shampoo in MANY places! Dogs didn't die from it either! LOL

Well, we have come a long way, baby! And so have the gene pools that our average dog clientelle consists of- but not necessarily on a good level. More and more dogs are allergy prone, sensitive, and come in to our salons with some level of issues to carefully address.
And also, the amount of one's time under their belt spent table side and grooming has no way to effectively show whether they've spent all that time getting educated or doing things the easy and cheap way.