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For all you folks that say full coated cockers can't 'work'

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  • For all you folks that say full coated cockers can't 'work'

    I just thought I'd share a few photos from a friend of mine who does all sorts of performance work with her dogs. Both of them have tracking titles, and multiple obedience and agility titles. When they work in the field they wear their tracking suits. Made out of the same stuff our grooming smocks are made of. Then two pictures of the dogs with their natural coats.

    I have one of these suits, originally i had bought it to keep the pee off my boys leg coat, but I soon put it to use when we went camping, and now that I live in a heavily wooded area, if I have dogs in coat, they wear one to walk on our trails.
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Those track suits are pretty cool! I mostly just rescue my dogs, but if I were going to be giving a breeder my money, I'd want it to be someone who was bettering the breed. I feel like working your dogs is very important. It shows they can physically handle the work they were bred for. Not that I would likely be working my dogs, but a working dog is going to produce more physically sound puppies, which equates to a longer life. I do still feel as if today's am. cocker is ridiculously heavy coated, but it is good to know some can still work! That black is just gorgeous by the way!
    I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free.
    -Michelangelo

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    • #3
      Cool!! I've never seen a suit like that very interesting.

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      • #4
        The point is without the suit the dog would be a matted mess. They still can not naturally go out and work with out either a man made invention or being a matted mess. American Cockers have way too much coat for the average I am too lazy to take care of a dogs coat pet owner. American Pet Cockers never used to come in matted to the skin every where but their backs when I started grooming. The owners were able to care of the moderate amount of coat on the legs and skirt, not anymore. All the American Cockers that I groom now and I do mean ALL have no more than 2 inches hair on their legs and skirt because the owners can not take of the dogs coats if the hair is any longer or thicker than this. It is just a shame that all for the sake of ribbon in a dog show the average pet owner can not take of a cocker coat with cutting is almost all off.

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        • #5
          If I go for a ride in the backseat of a convertible, my hair will be a matted mess. But if I use a man-made device like a hat or a scarf, I'm good to go! Perhaps I should go with a "puppy cut"?! I should certainly not have children since my "coat" isn't correct if it mats this way. Oh, oops! Too late. My "puppy" is 33 yrs old, with male pattern balding. Does that count as an incorrect coat? Ahhh I crack me up!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by poodlecsigreen View Post
            The point is without the suit the dog would be a matted mess. They still can not naturally go out and work with out either a man made invention or being a matted mess. American Cockers have way too much coat for the average I am too lazy to take care of a dogs coat pet owner. American Pet Cockers never used to come in matted to the skin every where but their backs when I started grooming. The owners were able to care of the moderate amount of coat on the legs and skirt, not anymore. All the American Cockers that I groom now and I do mean ALL have no more than 2 inches hair on their legs and skirt because the owners can not take of the dogs coats if the hair is any longer or thicker than this. It is just a shame that all for the sake of ribbon in a dog show the average pet owner can not take of a cocker coat with cutting is almost all off.
            gee, most of my client dofs are WAY over 2 inches on the legs and take wonderful care of them. I have had cockers my entire life (48 years) and they ALL had profuse hair. They take work. as do any dogs with hair. My guys dont wear suits but do get done once a week or so. I just cut two down. Not showing or competing with them, so why keep the hair?
            <a href="http://www.groomwise.typepad.com/grooming_smarter" target="_blank">My Blog</a> The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why. –Mark Twain

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            • #7
              I have 2 cockers, one is show coated, although she's 8 and she doesn't hardly do anything other than sleep she still takes a lot of time and effort to groom her.
              my 4 year old cocker is in a pet cut but has about 3-4 inches on her skirt and legs. Her and I do agility and hunting. With proper tools, coat products, and a little effort I have no problems with her coat in the field.

              I LOVE the suits though! They would be fabulous for the snow! Did she have them custom made?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by poodlecsigreen View Post
                All the American Cockers that I groom now and I do mean ALL have no more than 2 inches hair on their legs and skirt because the owners can not take of the dogs coats if the hair is any longer or thicker than this. It is just a shame that all for the sake of ribbon in a dog show the average pet owner can not take of a cocker coat with cutting is almost all off.
                In defense of cockers, the same could be said for several other breeds, afgans are the first to come to mind. Also, 99.9% of the clients that come into our salon can not handle more than 1" of fur on their dogs bodies, regardless of breed. Yes, that percent if fairly accurate, 1 person out of 1000 can handle their own dogs coat if it is longer then 1", not counting the shedding breeds, different coat type there. Standard poodles were even bred to be water retrievers, can you imagine a winning conformation poodle doing that? I think the handler would faint at the thought. My complaint about the am cocker is not so much the length of hair, but the thickness. My favorite cocker to groom gets a 1" snap on over the legs and I think she looks pretty darn snazzy, but her hair is the thinner variety (though still thicker then most dogs).
                I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free.
                -Michelangelo

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by cockerlvr View Post
                  When they work in the field they wear their tracking suits. Made out of the same stuff our grooming smocks are made of.
                  You're missing the point, Cockerlvr - the whole idea is to breed dogs that DON'T need to be bundled up in tracking suits in the first place because their coats fit the standard and are suitable for working field dogs.

                  "Coat
                  On the head, short and fine; on the body, medium length, with enough undercoating to give protection. The ears, chest, abdomen and legs are well feathered, but not so excessively as to hide the Cocker Spaniel's true lines and movement or affect his appearance and function as a moderately coated sporting dog. The texture is most important. The coat is silky, flat or slightly wavy and of a texture which permits easy care. Excessive coat or curly or cottony textured coat shall be severely penalized..."

                  Can you dig it?

                  If your friend's dogs had PROPER coats they wouldn't need to be put in a bag before being turned loose outside!

                  Take a look at Ch. My Own Brucie if you need some refreshing on the matter.

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                  • #10
                    Love the flying Agility picture. Beautiful dogs.

                    I have kind of mixed emotion about the coats. I'm thrilled that someone is dedicated to retaining some of the original instinct in the breed, as well as breeding structurally sound and healthy dogs.

                    OTOH.... we have woolie coated Sibes that would snowball like crazy, were they to run in snow. They'd be crippled and stopped in their tracks in less than 1/4 mile.
                    No one would ever think about putting a suit on them to compensate for an inadequate coat...you just don't breed for or run a dog like that. They just can't do the job they were originally designed to do, and they can't do it as a result of their coats.

                    So, like I said, mixed emotion......
                    Often it's not what you say, but how you say it.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Doubledogdare View Post
                      You're missing the point, Cockerlvr - the whole idea is to breed dogs that DON'T need to be bundled up in tracking suits in the first place because their coats fit the standard and are suitable for working field dogs.

                      "Coat
                      On the head, short and fine; on the body, medium length, with enough undercoating to give protection. The ears, chest, abdomen and legs are well feathered, but not so excessively as to hide the Cocker Spaniel's true lines and movement or affect his appearance and function as a moderately coated sporting dog. The texture is most important. The coat is silky, flat or slightly wavy and of a texture which permits easy care. Excessive coat or curly or cottony textured coat shall be severely penalized..."

                      Can you dig it?

                      If your friend's dogs had PROPER coats they wouldn't need to be put in a bag before being turned loose outside!

                      Take a look at Ch. My Own Brucie if you need some refreshing on the matter.

                      I don't need refreshing on the matter.

                      'The' picture you see of Brucie everywhere his leg feathers are CUT short, it didn't just grow that way. His ears show it, if his leg coat had been left to grow like his ears it would have been longer. Surely as a long time groomer you can see that.

                      I've seen many MANY cockers of today coated just like him until they are spayed or neutered and they grow a full coat like a cocker you see in the show ring today. As I've said before in the day of Brucie nobody spayed or neutered their animals and the coats showed it.

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                      • #12
                        Oh BTW DDD our standard does not say the dog should be coated so that it can run in the field all day. It says so as not to hide the dogs true lines. My avatar dog is a perfect example of the coat the standard calls for. His coat is silky, stick straight, never mats (ok maybe if I let him go two months without a bath and brushout), he's patterned on his pasterns, very thin belly coat and if a person can't see his 'true lines' in these moving photos then that person must be blind.
                        Attached Files

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                        • #13
                          English Cocker heritage

                          American Cockers were bred from English Cockers, which have a much lighter 'working' coat.

                          Eventually - as we do with most breeds - we put a ton of hair on the 'American' Cockers here in this country.

                          The first Bichons that came over were not coated like today, either. Neither were the Bouviers. So I'm thinking that if the standard for Cockers is for some coat that would NOT 'hide the.....true lines" or 'affect his....function as a MODERATELY COATED (emphasis mine) sporting dog', we have certainly changed that!

                          Photos of My Own Brucie show a dog with an English coat pattern, from what I can see. And I have seen many Cockers like him (old-type American Cockers, not English Cockers) that are spayed/neutered and do not grow bushy, cottony coats. And since the show dogs aren't 'fixed', why do THEY have big, heavy coats that grow everywhere, not just 'feathering', no smooth pattern on the fronts of the front legs, the muzzle, etc?? It's genetics, the result of the breeding that has been done to choose for more coat. We went for glamor instead of sensibility and utility. I have also done many spayed/neutered English Cockers over the years, and have never seen one with coat that looks like the typical American Cocker. Genetics usually trumps spaying or neutering.

                          You just cannot argue credibly that American Cockers NOW have the same coats that they originally did, that the coats actually follows the original standard, or that spaying/neutering causes the big coats.

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                          • #14
                            I do not argue that they have the same coats now as they did then. the breed has evolved, it's why they were split in the first place. I guess I'll have to scare up all my photos of field coated dogs that have been spayed or neutered and grown full lush coats.

                            FYI when I say my avatar dog is patterned on his pasterns that means he is 'smooth on the front of his legs'. Without his chest coat growing over it it's very obvious to see. He is a show champion.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by cockerlvr View Post
                              Oh BTW DDD our standard does not say the dog should be coated so that it can run in the field all day. It says so as not to hide the dogs true lines. My avatar dog is a perfect example of the coat the standard calls for. His coat is silky, stick straight, never mats (ok maybe if I let him go two months without a bath and brushout), he's patterned on his pasterns, very thin belly coat and if a person can't see his 'true lines' in these moving photos then that person must be blind.
                              Wow he is stunning.
                              amanda
                              ~You have not lived today until you have done something for someone who cannot pay you back~

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