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  • WHY?!

    How judgmental can people be!

    TELL ME whats the difference between grooming pets and being a cosmetologist. you learn the same thing! the styles, the skin diseases, the products, tools, texture of the hair etc... except one is geard toward humans and one for canines...

    so WHY does Florida Pre-Paid and other grant/school loan companies only approve cosmetology programs and wont even give a LOAN for grooming???

    NOTE:

    I didn't actually mean that its the SAME. Just basically the idea. One making humans pretty and one making canines pretty... but not only that, for Example, when I call a bank and ask for a school loan heres how the conversation usually goes...
    "What kind of school: College or Vocational?"
    i say "Vocational"
    they reply "Yes we deffinantly will give you a loan for that... What is the name of the school?"
    i reply "Maryfield school of grooming or Pets playground school of grooming..either or"
    they reply "Oh... I don't think we fund for THAT... would you be interested in something else like Cosemetology or Chef?"
    ..........then they can't help me

    anyone understand what i mean?
    Last edited by SBozan7; 04-28-10, 01:31 PM. Reason: misunderstood responses

  • #2
    OMG I hate to bring this up but the government works in mysterious ways. I don't like many things associated with licensing the profession, but some people have said I was a proponent, no not if you read carefully. There is one benefit though, ORGANIZATION. As a BODY of professionals you do indeed have more clout. Our whole governmental system works on lobbying, big corporations getting their way. An organized body can use that benefit, or not. Hairstyling for people, veterinarians are tremendously more organized. Required education etc is mandated, all that ugly red tape, so it follows then that people with bucks that can make loans don't want study us, groomers?!?!?<#*&!!

    Just as we warn all potential students here TO STUDY and VISIT schools before they attend, it is based on the fact that even when state licensed, it doesn't mean a school program is adequate. That is NOT what state licensing means. It's just they have done some background checks, they are registered, they are LIKELY to do a good job, and they can track complaints. Not that hairstyling is so much more advanced, but supposedly they must provide legislated amounts of hours, topics etc, depending upon the state. So the government and loan makers feel a bit better about loans for a regulated field.

    Grooming is not regulated and they don't want to take the time to study if the school is adequate, what do they know about grooming anyway?

    The government favors licensed fields, and accreditation, and the latter is required for government loans. In your state there are schools that still offer financial aid, such as the Florida Institute of Animal Arts. www.myfiaa.com

    So, grooming is a muddle. Look at it this way. Mr. or Mrs. Legislator, or Mr. or Mrs. Bank or Loan Company, wants to talk to the head of field before making a loan to that field. Who ya gonna call? They can call the agency that handles the vocational licensing of hairstylists or vets, but grooming.

    Well Iknow that for a fact because some do call NDGAA, and I get calls, and sometimes our associations heads refer calls to me??? I do my best to portray the benefits of grooming etc, it's been my family's life for 50 years as of next year. But remember who I am talking to!!!

    We have no official office or spokeperson for our field and our school programs are not regulated for AGREED UPON REQUIRED CONTENT. Well if you are accredited they do give more respect, and that's why some schools today are still offering loans and financial assistance.

    Remember these people come from a mindset of STRUCTURE, REQUIREMENTS, DEEP POCKET LAWSUIT WORRIES, LINE 32 go to LINE 54, FILE THIS THERE, DUCKS MUST IN ORDER, and don't really care about the grooming. ALL BUSINESS LOANS FOR EXAMPLE MUST FIT A COMPUTER MODEL EACH BANK HAS AT THE MOMENT YOU APPLY. It can change in a day. I have been a part of perhaps 1,000 plus now business plans financed for groomers, and it was all about the COMPUTER MODELS for the loan requirements. It's inhuman yes.

    We are a very fragmented industry, we all know that. The same trim is called different things in different states or regions. Most groomers don't even talk to other groomers in their area. Most groomers don't go to trade shows. Most groomers don't belong to any organizations. Most schools, nearly all, are not accreditted. It makes a statement that we have so many groomers, career seekers, GroomWise Bloggers helping others. Look at the potential if all groomers would join and help their industry. Regardless most of us do quite well thankfully, and don't look forward to pleasing all of the establishment's demands for regulation and requirements to borrow their money. In fact, it doesn't affect most of our livelihoods, but yes, it can affect traditional sources for loans for career seekers, TRADITIONAL being the keyword here.

    However, do check around. There are schools that have done a great deal of work to maintain financial aid when Sallie Mae loans etc fizzled, such the FL Institute and others. I recently called several and asked how they did it when other schools lost that aid, and it was with a lot of work on their part. It's a tremendous amount of paperwork to become accreditted and doesn't mean you get the best education, but certainly these are not fly by the night operations, and that's why the system senses more comfort working with them instead, right or wrong.

    I feel your frustration and it's been this way toward grooming a long time. I go back a long way in grooming when the retail sector even "looked down" on us until services became equal with sales of retail. At one time groomers were the entertainment of sorts at the big retail shows, and then companies finally came along like Barkleigh and then our associations to help lift the professional reputation of grooming. We could as a body do a lot more to improve our educational systems for career seekers, but that is pretty much left to our hard working schools setting standards today.

    Well did we get mad as hell and say we are not going to take it anymore? Indeed, my parents decided as demand increased for services to build an exceptional business, and we earned a lot of respect of the Mayor, corporate CEO's in our industrial area of Silicon Valley, that groomers can be prosperous. You bet the Mayor came to our Anniversary eventually. It was an uphill battle for awhile, and many groomers face that today in their areas. It's still hard work for groomers to make a name for themselves, and that's just the way it is and why I appeciate all the more those people of industry, big and small, lifting our professional reputation.
    Most questions regarding GroomerTALK are answered in the Board Help Talk Forum. Thanks for coming to our community a part of PetGroomer.com https://www.petgroomer.com.

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    • #3
      Cosmetology involves a lot more than grooming. The chemicals used in coloring hair for example could cause severe injury if not properly trained and you are dealing with HUMAN Beings.
      A Light exists in Spring, Not present on the Year, At any other period -- When March is scarcely here...~~ Emily Dickensen~~

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      • #4
        Originally posted by MydogMissy View Post
        Cosmetology involves a lot more than grooming. The chemicals used in coloring hair for example could cause severe injury if not properly trained and you are dealing with HUMAN Beings.
        Wow, that's just mind boggling. We use a lot of chemicals that could injure a pet if not used properly. Knowing not to use Tar and Sulfur shampoos on cats, what few flea products are safe for Greyhounds, dips, etc. My aunt actually teaches at a cosmotolgy school and once commented she was amazed at how much I needed to know in order to be good at my job. Especially since they don't have to teach handling skills, animal behvavior, etc. She never realized how much went into grooming. She said she was happy teaching cosmotology because it was easier.
        What a caterpillar considers the end of his world, we call a butterfly.

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        • #5
          pet grooming and cosmetology not even close!

          as a licensed cosmetologist i know how much hard work it takes to get your license,
          it takes around 10months to year to put in those 1600 hrs that the state of California requires you to have to apply for the state board exam and it's not easy you do 2 tests, the practical wich is hard because you have someone watching every move you make and then the written that is almost as hard! because it's very long.

          I remember when i was going to school and i would study my husband would help me so one day he said are you going to cosmetology school or Med school ? because I had to learn anatomy, chemistry, dermatology and many other things involved with our body. we also had to take some hours on business manangement.

          i never let my license expire because if you do and it's more than 5 years you have to test again everything! so in other words you loose your license, i always pay for it and it's not expensive at all less than what i charge for grooming a dog!

          when it comes to angles of cutting hair and the size of blades you use it's the opposite of grooming.
          there are many things that i use from my knowledge in cosmetology like how to properly holds shears, disinfection and sanitation guidelines and protection and safety measures that i learned and can be applied for the grooming industry!
          That would be the main reason i would support a state license for pet groomers in Ca.
          So to answer your question i believe that because cosmetologists go to school and are licensed they are taken seriously! as a pet groomer i hate that most people think our profession is a joke (until they find out how much a make a year!) but until most of us speak up and educate others about what we do and how much we know they will never change their minds.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by MydogMissy View Post
            Cosmetology involves a lot more than grooming. The chemicals used in coloring hair for example could cause severe injury if not properly trained and you are dealing with HUMAN Beings.
            Not to mention many states do not license for groomer cosmetology has set state requirement that are basic nation wide , grooming techniques vary widely by the schools themselves. Any one can learn to be a groomer Not always a good groomer but a groomer in general,However in the cosmetology field ,you not only learn how to use scissors and styles but have a knack science as well.

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            • #7
              You can get a student loan for grooming school. the catch is is has to be accredited. (spelling?) You can't just get a student loan to go to another groomer and be taught.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by mylady View Post
                Wow, that's just mind boggling. We use a lot of chemicals that could injure a pet if not used properly. Knowing not to use Tar and Sulfur shampoos on cats, what few flea products are safe for Greyhounds, dips, etc. My aunt actually teaches at a cosmotolgy school and once commented she was amazed at how much I needed to know in order to be good at my job. Especially since they don't have to teach handling skills, animal behvavior, etc. She never realized how much went into grooming. She said she was happy teaching cosmotology because it was easier.
                I wasn't dissing grooming mylady. Just recognizing a fact.... we don't generally use chemicals that can leave chemical burns.
                A Light exists in Spring, Not present on the Year, At any other period -- When March is scarcely here...~~ Emily Dickensen~~

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                • #9
                  Is there any such thing as an accredited grooming school?
                  "We are all ignorant--we merely have different areas of specialization."~Anonymous
                  People, PLEASE..It's ONLY a website!~Me

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                  • #10
                    Oh yes. ISCC does that, and there are other vocational service companies that do that but they are outside grooming. ISCC has accreditted some schools, you will see that when you check out a school carefully. Generally, schools offering governmental financial aid must be both state licensed successfully for 2 years minimum, AND further, accreditted.


                    Originally posted by Smart-n-Pretty View Post
                    Is there any such thing as an accredited grooming school?
                    Most questions regarding GroomerTALK are answered in the Board Help Talk Forum. Thanks for coming to our community a part of PetGroomer.com https://www.petgroomer.com.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MydogMissy View Post
                      The chemicals used in coloring hair for example could cause severe injury if not properly trained and you are dealing with HUMAN Beings.
                      Pesticides can kill. That trumps a chemical burn in my opinion.

                      Coal Tar is a KNOWN carcinogenic. My father is a chemist. He walked in to my work one day and nearly freaked out that I was using some of the chemicals without protecting myself. Especially the one with Coal Tar in it. I promptly chucked the rest of the gallon of shampoo in the garbage.

                      In my OPINION groomers need to know more than a human hair stylist. How many people go to their hair stylist to get medical conditions treated. I don't know that I have ever asked my hair stylist about nutrition. If you walk in with head lice your hair stylist will ask you to walk out, they will not try to treat it for you. Groomers also have to understand dog behavior and training.


                      We SHOULD know just as much about hair and skin structure as our human counterparts. When was the last time a human hair stylist accidentally killed a client. The stakes are so much higher for doggie stylists.
                      "The most affectionate creature in the world is a wet dog." -Ambrose Bierce

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by keyray View Post
                        Pesticides can kill. That trumps a chemical burn in my opinion.

                        Coal Tar is a KNOWN carcinogenic. My father is a chemist. He walked in to my work one day and nearly freaked out that I was using some of the chemicals without protecting myself. Especially the one with Coal Tar in it. I promptly chucked the rest of the gallon of shampoo in the garbage.

                        In my OPINION groomers need to know more than a human hair stylist. How many people go to their hair stylist to get medical conditions treated. I don't know that I have ever asked my hair stylist about nutrition. If you walk in with head lice your hair stylist will ask you to walk out, they will not try to treat it for you. Groomers also have to understand dog behavior and training.


                        We SHOULD know just as much about hair and skin structure as our human counterparts. When was the last time a human hair stylist accidentally killed a client. The stakes are so much higher for doggie stylists.


                        Well, in MY OPINION.... chemical burns can kill, and trump pesticides (which are commonaly used to kill those nasty little bugs). Coal Tar shampoo is available even for human use, and is effective treatment for some conditions. The stakes are not nearly so high for a groomer than for a human hair stylist for injuries or death.
                        A Light exists in Spring, Not present on the Year, At any other period -- When March is scarcely here...~~ Emily Dickensen~~

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MydogMissy View Post
                          chemical burns can kill, and trump pesticides (which are commonaly used to kill those nasty little bugs).
                          Never have heard of someone dying from a bad perm. AND if my head starts burning while I am getting my hair colored you BETTER BELIEVE that I am saying something about it.

                          The problem is that pesticides are COMMONLY used with NO thought to the side effects. Within the last couple of months here in Utah pesticides were used incorrectly and KILLED two small children. Dogs die on groomer's tables and it is our responsibility to do EVERYTHING in our power to protect our clients. It is in our power to educate ourselves as much as possible.

                          Bad perms compared with killing a dog. You're right the stakes are not the same, we are being trusted with the LIFE of a pet, you may not put a high value on that, but your clients do!
                          "The most affectionate creature in the world is a wet dog." -Ambrose Bierce

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by MydogMissy View Post
                            Cosmetology involves a lot more than grooming. The chemicals used in coloring hair for example could cause severe injury if not properly trained and you are dealing with HUMAN Beings.
                            OK I hope not to rant on this... but.. a cosmetologist needs to know chemicals for dyes & perms, they need to know how to cut hair & style it. If you get a bad hair cut, it grows back or you can get a wig. A bad perm, hair loss may result, dyes, skin irritations/possible loss of hair. There is the fact too that you can cause skin burns yes...

                            As a professional groomer
                            1. I need to know chemicals - I have had deep sadness to learn many of my 'old time' grooming friends are now battling cancers from all the dips we used. Many are also gone, to many of us are seriously hurt and way to many pets are injured.
                            2. we are dealing with live animals - I wonder if anyone ever considered things about our profession that are (IMHO) slightly important.
                            ex: ring worm, tape worms, round worms (all can be transmitted to humans) fleas, ticks, sarcoptic mange (all carry very serious diseases to humans) and shall I begin on the very long list of.... no I wont go there, Ill just mention there are MORE than a few zoonic diseases that pets "Can" bring home to the entire family that we as professional SHOULD be able to spot before tragedy strikes)
                            3. science has proven having pets is advantageous to humans through multitudes of studies showing great health benefits as a result of having a pet in your life (issues such as blood pressure, stress, heart issues, psychological benefits etc...)
                            4. humans (far more than you know) depend on pets to live independently. They assist humans is all areas of sight, hearing, seizure disorders, autism, etc.....

                            to me the problem is that far to many people still see pets as property rather than all the things they do FOR us. Licensing has been an issue for far to long, the real problem is that the day will come when some 'outside' person feels they know how to do our job knowing so little about what is really involved that they will create parameters that will literally close most of the shops down because we will not be able to use nooses, muzzles, sharp instruments... etc.. (they may hurt the pet )

                            Im sorry if I have offended anyone here.. I think a bad hair day is a little less important than knowing how to treat ticks who could carry lyme, worms that can cause serious illness (and in some cases of small children - death) and knowing that in our profession we (go places most owners wont go If you catch my drift)... I think it is far more important that we get our heads out of the sand and stop pretending we are 'special' and find people IN our profession to keep us all safe, secure and respected... doing what we love.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Smart-n-Pretty View Post
                              Is there any such thing as an accredited grooming school?
                              Yes
                              I work at one. It was a pain in the neck getting accredited by the state!
                              And our school does have several funding options.

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