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  • Need poodle puppy evaluation

    First of all I am not the one looking at his puppy, a client of mine it looking at it. I am NOT impressed with this puppy even though he is out of a great kennel. Let me back that up. I am not impressed for the MONEY the person wants and the extreme contract that comes with it! SHe is asking over $2000 for him on a show contract, co own, with a stiff (VERY VERY stiff penalty) if she chooses not to show him, PLUS the breeder is mandating which handler she is to use, at her own expense mind you.......

    She was looking for a black toy to show, but was told by this breeder no way she would ever find one for sale. Talked her into this mini. I know the breeder by reputation, but dont ask cause I wont tell.....This will be her first show dog and I think that she is being taken advantage off.

    For the record I dont ike the tail, not the tailset, but the tail, and I dont like the feet, and to me the face looks "thick" but I am used to toys anyway.....

    I wanted a few more opinions to make sure I am seeing what i am seeing. I can find her a toy who's sister is being show as we speak and doing really well, she just didnt ask me, she went to the AKC website looking for breeder referrals.

    This is a fantastic pet owner who spent $23,000 on her last toy, not including travel and managed to keep him alive about 5 years he should not have been here. SHe is ready for another one and will make a great owner, but I wish she had asked before she started these negotiations. Her attorney is not happy with the contract because it really gives her no protection other than health, but covers the breeder almost to the point that the woman will NEVER own the dog. She will never own him if he isnt nuetered, even after hes finished........I realize the photos are not high quality but its impossible to get them larger here.

    I just feel like this breeder is ripping her off, and as I respect this person it is hard for me to believe, but I have seen the contract......I believe in screening owners but you have to let them have some rights if you are taking their money!
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  • #2
    Tell her to go to www.sharbelle.com

    The poodles are great, she's ethical, and she is one of the top breeders in the US.

    Tammy in Utah
    Groomers Helper Affiliate

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    • #3
      I agree on the tail, but more importantly, has this person ever had a show dog? does she have any idea what that entails? that he will live with the handler for a year or two possibly? Most breeders insist the dog stay with the handler from about 5 months until finished to make sure the coat/conditioning etc are taken care of.
      I bought a dog that way, luckily he finished at 13 months, I finally got the handler paid off and got him home, ended up selling him back to the breeder for what I paid for him, and she sold him overseas for many times the money. I have finished many many chs, but she wouldn't sell him unless he went to her handler.
      I would never do it again.
      If she wants a lovely pet, she needs to buy one outright.
      Deidre

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      • #4
        I hope she listens

        After you AND her lawyer tell her the contract is over the top, what is she thinking??

        Hopefully she will see the toy you are thinking of and fall in love.

        It IS hard to imagine this boy's face being refined enough as he grows, but some lines of dogs DO look weirder as pups and then mature into the desirable look, lol. However, I wouldn't want to bet on that - this woman should listen to you. Ask her if she's going to listen to experts (you and the lawyer) or believe the person who is trying to get her money??

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        • #5
          it look as though he has a squirrel my one dog has that but by no means is he a show dog,and i hate his tail ,he or she is very heavy on bone for a miniature,i think that is a lot of money for a dog.but then i am not into showing dogs i love my very nice looking pet dogs.my standards are just pets but they are very nice looking dogs.hope she gets it all figured out.lori

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          • #6
            For the record, when we evaluate litters of Sibes...what ya see at 8 weeks, is what ya get in the end.

            The tail is definitely a turnoff. You don't say how old the puppy is, and I have not read the breed standard in eons, nor do I know what is winning out there now...but he does look a little heavy on bone, and may be the pic...but his feet look like they could be a tad tighter.

            No matter....I think the price/stipulations outlined are not reasonable for the owner you describe.
            Often it's not what you say, but how you say it.

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            • #7
              I am not fond of the look of him for show either, mostly the tail and I am funny about tight feet and I just don't see it on this puppy. There are many breeeders to choose from out there and with the contract your talkin about and his appearance, I really think she is getting ripped off. He is cute and he is cute. I have a feeling you will be telling her I told you so if she purchases this male puppy.
              ***Darlynn***
              ***DON"T HATE ME BECAUSE IM POODLEFUL!!***

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              • #8
                I can't pinpoint exactly what it is... but I'm not impressed either. Maybe its the feet and/or tail but yeah, I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a show quality pup when there's that many rules and stipulations. As for not being able to find a black show toy... pfft. If you look, you can find them. They may not be available right away and one might have to wait for next litter... but they are out there.

                A few toy poodle breeders I know of...
                Kay Amen - www.toy-poodles.com Who I got my toy poodles from and has puppies right now although I don't know if they are show or pet. And her dogs are priced fair.
                Royal Toy Poodles
                Southhampton Toys

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                • #9
                  I'm by no means a poodle expert or breeder myself but the tail looks broke and something with the front feet bother me..

                  there's a red flag all over that puppy!
                  ~*~*~Shawn, C.M.G.~*~*~
                  Apparently common sense isn't all that common
                  *~*~emipoo on egroomer*~*~*

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                  • #10
                    Though I do not breed poodles, I can understand the in depth of the contract especially if the new owner has never owned a show dog before. I have very in depth contracts when I sell a "show " puppy and yes it is a co own type sale.

                    I wonder why the owner wants a "show" puppy? Like others stated the poo would be out alot with the handler. Is she aware this is typical,is she comforatable with the breeder? Does she feel comfortable with talking with this breeder? Lots of questions....sorry

                    Trish

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                    • #11
                      I agree with ya'll, his face looks really bland...but beyond that what's the fun in paying oodles (sorry, couldn't resist the pun) of money for a dog you can't even ever have? Unless by some miracle of God your client happens to ever convince the other (half owner!) that he should be neutered? She's in for a ride if she takes it and I doubt it'll be fun.
                      There are 3 different kinds of people in this world: Dog people, cat people, and rational people who don't have a problem liking two things at the same time.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SpikeyTheYorkie View Post
                        Tell her to go to www.sharbelle.com

                        The poodles are great, she's ethical, and she is one of the top breeders in the US.

                        Tammy in Utah

                        While sharbelle does breed a pretty dog...I wouldn't pay for a dog from sharbelle. My co-worker has dealt with sharbelle a lot over the years and you wouldn't believe some of the info she has told me about them, and I've seen evidence to back it up.

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                        • #13
                          How old is the puppy in the pic? I actually kind of like the feet. They are cute and chubby, from my understanding that is an old fashioned trait. Sporting dog judges tend to like the chubby feet. I don't like the tail though. I think the face will lengthen as the dog grows. A friend of mine breeds minis and all their faces look like that when they are young.
                          Plus if the lady wants a toy, why doesn't she get a toy? Why is she taking this breeder's word that she won't be able to find a black toy? I know that black toys aren't super common, but they are out there. I think this client needs to tell the breeder that the deal is off and start looking for another breeder. If she wants a black toy, then by golly she should get a black toy. This breeder is raking this lady through the coals, and it seems like this lady wants a black puppy so badly she is too desperate to notice. You should tell her to be patient. She will be able to find what she wants, she just needs to be patient and find the right breeder.

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                          • #14
                            No way No how! The contract is bad, the pup is not show quality, those paws belong on a standard,not a toy. But she will buy him and be heartbroken , if you and the attorney can't make her see.
                            ~~Everyone is entitled to my opinion!~~

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                            • #15
                              When it comes t conformation in a poodle (or any dog) I am as ignorant as the day is long, but, why is the puppy standing so weird with his back legs all stretched out behind him like that?
                              "We are all ignorant--we merely have different areas of specialization."~Anonymous
                              People, PLEASE..It's ONLY a website!~Me

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