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We Owe Them Some Respect

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  • We Owe Them Some Respect

    To those who think I've been too harsh in my defense of hapless and helpless animals, let me just remind everyone of this.

    Dogs are not natural animals. They are the results of artificial selection by human beings over thousands of years. Collectively, WE created them. We breed them for us. We have them for our pleasure.

    And we owe them some respect!

    Nature may be cruel. But we don't have to be. We are able to reason. We have the ability to empathise with the plight of others, both humans and animals. We should be using our abilities to reason and empathise to figure out a better way. Because there are better ways. Ways that are gentle and humane. Ways that don't involve using brute force. Ways that don't strike fear into the hearts of the animals who are entrusted into our care.

    I am not an animal rights whacko. But I do think we, as professionals in the animal care industry, have a duty to treat our clients humanely. We don't have to be cruel. We don't have to risk physical injury to the animals we are working with. We don't have to literally scare the **** out of them. And the fact that there seems to be some people who see nothing wrong with the folks who do really saddens me.

    Please, think about it. There's no need to be cruel. It's not funny. And it's not fair to the animals. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Treat the animals you care for with respect.

  • #2
    I totaly agree, every dog is different, some respond to soft no, others are used to rougher voices and handling. But they should never be "man" handled unless it is for your peotection. Honestly I get farther being kind even with the biters,and if you do have to correct one always pet it to reasure them it is the action and not them that is bad. Correction DOES not mean a beating.
    ~~Everyone is entitled to my opinion!~~

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    • #3
      DITTO!
      "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind"-Theodorus Gaza

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      • #4
        I absolutely agree

        Most animals can be corrected with a simple stern but quiet "No" and some meaningful body language behind it (looking them in the eye etc). Understanding dog behavior and communication is very important in our field. It allows us to safely correct dogs that need it, while not scaring them into "submission".
        My Blog: <a href="http://groomwise.typepad.com/in_the_dogs_house/">In the Dogs' House Groomwise Blog</a>

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        • #5
          You said it perfectly. I don't understand the mentality of some who won't take the time to work through a dog's issues with a loving touch and understanding. I know that many groomers don't want to deal with difficult dogs. Fine your choice and I respect it. I don't mind working with the grumpy ones.

          Helly you are great and if some don't understand the passion you feel for animals.
          "I've seen a look in dogs' eyes, a quickly vanishing look of amazed contempt,
          and I am convinced that basically dogs think humans are nuts." - John Steinbeck
          www.wagmoresalon.com

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          • #6
            You are 100% I think everyone should be "harsh" in the defense of helpless animals in our care. The have no choice in what happens to them and we should be responsible for the animals we choose to own or care for. I tell my employees all the time just because you aren't being mean to a dog doesn't mean you are being compassionate which is require to build trust.

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            • #7
              I agree with you.
              But, and it is not a but at what you posted, it is a but on other peoples parts. I honestly feel that some people honestly don't understand that what they are doing is scaring the dog. And sometimes they have the best of intentions but just very lacking in judgement of the follow through. I am not talking about abusive people, I mean people that think they are showing a dog there is nothing to be afraid of, but in the process frightening the dog. I have first hand seen people "win" and think whole heartedly that they showed the dog it was not that bad, and they needn't be so afraid. I use anecdotes about little things that scare me, even though I should know better, and then finish with, imagine if I didn't know better and they did this or that.
              Sorry for rambling, it probably made no sense. But the moral of my story is I agree with you, and I think even people that are accidentally doing some of these things would agree with you if they understood

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              • #8
                My problem isn't your defense of animals Helly, It is your implication that everyone who does not agree with you is brutal, mean, irresponsible, uneducated, not as knowlegable as you or doesn't know what they are doing.

                You accused me of it and I am one of the kindest, most empathetic, giant hearted, do anything for animals that I can .. EVERY animal... not just the good animals but the animals that no one else including you will touch because you might get bitten. I do it WITHOUT sedation, even though I work in a veterinary hospital and could, if I wanted to, get any animal sedated with the owners permission. I work with elderly animals, animals in their last days, anxiety animals, animals who are on record as having bitten groomers and I have yet to have gotten hurt or seriously bitten. I have also been doing this almost as long as you in the same kind of settings. I have zero animal injuries on my record except the very occasional clipper nick. I've worked with vets, nurses, rescue, and trainers. Three different veterinary hospitals, with veterinarians who have worked with me and moved on to their own practices recommend me, as do two area trainers who ONLY use positive training methods. I am in a fishbowl all day everyday, everyone sees everything I do and you still implied on a public board that I was brutal and unsafe.

                I did not post all that to extol my virtues or to brag, I posted it to make the point that you are passing judgment regularly on professionals like me who are as respected in our own areas and are as passionate at what we are doing as you are in your own area. It is one thing to say "I disagree with so and so, this is what I would do it" It is another thing to straight out go on the attack and call your fellow professionals any of the things listed above, but worst of all is to imply abuse. If you do, you better be darn sure that person is truly an abuser. (as in, see it with your own eyes)

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                • #9
                  I agree that we are their advocates and need to educate and inform or report as necessary. For people who just need education going at them with both barrels defeats the purpose. For abusers, I couldn't care less what you did to them. You also cannot make blind assumptions as to which group someone may fall into to if you are not personally involved. Like a lot of us, you are very passionate about your beliefs, but if someone tunes you out, then you haven't accomplished anything.There have been many times when I have stopped reading your posts because you were a little over the top in criticism.
                  Certified Master Pet Tech Pet CPR, First Aid and Care Instructor
                  "Compassion will cure more sins than condemnation." Henry Ward Beecher US Congregational Minister 1813-1887

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                  • #10
                    huh?

                    not sure what you were trying to accomplish with that post. it came off to me as an I am better than you kinda thing. I agree with some of what you stated but no need to pat yourself on the back. Just realize that there are many intelligent, competent groomers on the board who know about all kind of dog related issues. we are all here to learn from each other. no one understands a groomer like another groomer.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by workingchihuahua View Post
                      For people who just need education going at them with both barrels defeats the purpose.
                      I suppose there is no other way to put this other than I agree completely.

                      Over the past 30 years....I've been on the "barrel" end and the stock end, and neither one is pleasant or left me with a good feeling.

                      Sensitively, avocation, and higher level of compassion towards animals are a given in this career of choice,...but sometimes I think it benefits all of us to remember that it can be extended in the direction a fellow person as well.
                      Often it's not what you say, but how you say it.

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                      • #12
                        It probably stems from the post where I said that when a dog has a meltdown/attacks over having its feet touched "I calmly sit back in my chair, do not say a word, and continue to gently hold the paw" as a training method, until the meltdown passes - to teach the dog that lashing out gets them nowhere. Helly said the dogs think I am "crazy" and I am being "brutal", then compared it to hog-tying animals and throwing them down or something.

                        We can agree to disagree on that. Opinions make the world go-round.

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                        • #13
                          Interesting, Helly. Do you recall not long ago there was a thread on here started by someone who thought it would be funny to post pictures of snarling, stressed out dogs (ie those who were being dried with a HV and snapping at the nozzles) on the waiting room wall areas? Can you imagine groomers standing there, laughing and taking pictures? Or imagine anyone in this profession thinking it was funny?
                          Last edited by blue; 04-15-10, 07:27 PM.
                          The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under whose shade you do not expect to sit. ~Nelson Henderson

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                          • #14
                            A firm "No" with attitude and a good understanding about each breeds inclination works wonders for me. You don't say No to a terrier the same way you say no to a shihtzu. It's amazing how many dogs I get in here that other shops in the area "can't touch or handle" that are perfect kids here. When somebody is physically or verbally rough on an animal, they only put more fear into them and make it harder the next time around.

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                            • #15
                              All living things deserve to be defended and treated with kindness. It's sad that some people really don't know any better, then there are those who DO know better, but still use questionable methods.

                              I remember a few post's a while back where barkers were dealt with by shaking the crate. I believe the poster used the term EARTHQUAKE for this method and used for the dogs that barked excessively. They also said that the dogs quickly learned to stop barking after a few times of that.

                              That to me, doesn't sound like a person that has compassion for animals. It sounds like someone who is burned out, stressed, and tired of being where they were. If they are now saying they are compassionate toward animals and criticizing others for THEIR methods, then they could be called hypocritical.

                              I walk over, rattle their cage and say "QUIET" and they shut up.

                              I use "QUIET" for barkers and "KNOCK IT OFF" for diggers. And I usually start by banging two metal food dishes to get their attention. If that doesn't work, I give the cage a shake. Nothing like a minor earthquake to get your attention, lol.

                              And I don't tolerate nonstop barkers. They learn to shut up pretty fast. Sometimes they have to be reminded for a few visits, a couple of them need to be reminded every time, but they do all learn.

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