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  • Ok so I need Everyones opinion

    delete post
    Last edited by goldiphlox; 04-08-07, 10:03 AM. Reason: delete

  • #2
    Hindsight is 20/20...Never again take someones word for it. If indeed this is what she told you, it sounds like she was trying to be sly. It is, however, up to us to make sure that we don't get screwed, because we are the only ones who it truly effects. If you like your place of work, just ask her about it, tell her you got a different amount this time, and ask if this is the way you should have been doing it all along...I would imagine though that it will be strained now because you are mad...and chances are you will stay angry because you will probably never re coup the $ lost. Maybe it is best to move on...

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    • #3
      well i really can't help you about the pay issue...but my question is this...does the bather work SPECIFICALLY for you or is the bather provided by the owner and works for whomever? or does everyone have their own bather...meaning if you only have a few dogs and you dont need the bather can you tell the bather not to come in that day? or no?
      im just curious about that.
      Hound

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      • #4
        Start paying your bather out of your own pocket if at all possible. Oh and there are fun little rules for subcontractors. Like, who books your appointments? When your appointments are booked, does this woman you subcontract for make your hours or do you decide your own hours to work? Do you take breaks when you want or when the shop owner wants? I hope this woman doesn't act like she owns you like an employer does, because she doesn't. Besides paying the bather and your own taxes what else do you pay for there?

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        • #5
          Ok since this is on this thread where can you find information on subcontracting groomers/bathers, like what are the rules?

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          • #6
            Employment taxes,,

            So who is responsible for employment taxes, w. comp. injuries etc. sounds like a pretty shady situation.

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            • #7
              just my opinion

              Hi all,

              Great subject...when my shop started to get to busy for me to handle myself and needed to hire help I kinda asked around how other shop owners paid employees. I found out several owners did the 1099 which apparently does save the shop owner money. I wanted to make sure that I was doing everything by the book and legal so I contacted an accountant (actually two accountants to make sure information was accurate),both of them told me to be very careful if I decided to pay my groomers the 1099 way. There was alot of rules and regulations to the 1099. If your groomers are being paid as a subcontractor and just "renting" space from you, then they are to supply their own customers, their own equipment which included, shampoos, towels etc..It would have to two separate businesses under one address If they were to get audited and were not following these rules they could be fined penalites that could go back years. I actually did meet a shop owner that paid 1099 and was audited and both shop owner and groomer were heavily fined for not abiding by the rules. Sounded more trouble than it was worth, so I pay my groomers with regular checks with taxes deducted as they specified. I do pay a WHOLE LOT of payroll taxes but dont want to mess around with big brother...I suggest you find out twhat the rules are in your areas as they may differ from state to state..just food for thought

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              • #8
                I have a few questions;Lets first determine the bathers position from an IRS view point and to do this the same rules apply to her as well as to you.
                1.Do you supply all shampoos and equiptment needed to do the job?
                2.Do you tell her what to do and when,or does she set up her own schedual?
                3.If there is a problem w/work performed does she answer to anyone elce besides the owner of the dog/s?
                4.Do you issue her a 1099 or are taxes taken out and a w-2 issued?
                5.If a 1099 or a w-2 is given who issues it,or heaven forbit is she being paid "under the table"?
                These are some of the rules used to determin what an employee is or isn't.I used to be professional tax preparer and you bet I made sure as my name was on the tax returns!Post your answers to theses questions and I will be happy to tell you what she is or isn't.You need to know the difference as you may have a serious tax liability and not know it.

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                • #9
                  My thoughts are that she is a meat head and doesn't know math and told you the information backwards by mistake, OR, she did it on purpose, but you'd think that she'd realize how easily she COULD have gotten caught, OR, you understood her words "backward" from what they really were, cheating yourself. I would ask her AGAIN, "hey, I'm not sure if I've been doing this right all along, I don't want to rip anybody off, will you tell me, again, how you do it so I don't get screwed." And when she tells you, and it's wrong, then show her on paper, and watch her reaction.

                  And if you feel inclined to do so, remind her that you've lost about $10,000 because of this. You cannot blame her or make her pay anything I would assume, because there is no proof, but at least she will know that you've caught on. If she seems surprised, then maybe she truly doesn't know math very well.

                  Tammy in Utah
                  Groomers Helper Affiliate

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                  • #10
                    She wanted her % of the whole pie first! ... before the bather's portion was deducted! I had words with a former employer when I worked straight commission because I felt I should do NO extra work. As a commissioned employee why should I do weekly cleaning that I wasn't paid for like washing walls, mopping floors, etc ? Routine cleaning was fine & my station but NOT heavy duty. !!

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                    • #11
                      Well aside from the whole 1099 thing...you are apparently more concerned about the issue of how the bathers pay is figured. Obviously if the bathers pay is subtracted from the gross groom cost the business owner is paying for half (or whatever percentage of the groom she gets) of the bather. If the bathers pay is subtracted only from the groomers percentage the groomer is paying for the bather entirely. What was the original deal when you were hired? Did she say you get XX% minus the cost of a bather? Or did she say she would split the cost of a bather with you? Unless the deal was that she paid a percentage of the bather you should be subtracting the bather after the split. If she did in fact tell you that you would get screwed if you figured it the other way she mislead but I can't imagine why she thought it would make sense. I am paid 50% with no bather (I do it all usually) On the rare occasion that I get use of a bather, the bathers entire pay for the day is subtracted from my commission. I was sceptical the first time I had a bather but I actually made quite a bit more money. I am an employee, not a subcontractor.

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                      • #12
                        Taxes

                        By taking the bathers $ out first are you not then actually paying her taxes? Her income will be showing up on your 1099 totals. You may be losing more money than saving after you file your tax return.

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                        • #13
                          Not knowing your actual totals and the difference $$ amounts between deducting the bathers pay before or after, have you considered what she may have been talking about is your tax liability? Perhaps you would have less tax liability if deducting the bathers pay the way she is telling you to do.

                          I ran some hypothetical #'s and you are right. The initial amount is more by deducting the bathers pay before the %, BUT you'll also have a higher tax liability and that amount should be significant enough to make a difference in your net to be worth it.

                          Just a thought.

                          Another thing is, are you getting a % of your gross or are you paying her a flat fee per day/week/month/whatever? If so, does that seem right if you are a subcontractor? (just curious)

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                          • #14
                            Well, since you asked for opinions, my opinion is that you should consult an accountant and/or tax attorney and make sure what's going on is all righty tighty with the IRS. You may be getting screwed in more ways than one. And while $10,000 is a lot of money, getting in trouble with the IRS is worse. Could be much worse, for both of you, but especially your employer.

                            Some questions to consider:

                            If you have to pay the bather, does that make you the bather's employer? Do you have to give him/her a 1099? Can you use his/her wages as a tax deduction?

                            Most groomers who are paid as contract labor are technically not ICs. For example, if you don't feel like working, can you hire another groomer to work for you? If no, you don't qualify as an independent contractor.

                            Can you work at some other shop, or on your own, at the same time you're working at your current shop? If no, you don't qualify as an IC.

                            Like I said, I'd make absolutely sure you qualify as an IC, if I were in your shoes. The IRS plays hardball.

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                            • #15
                              Get it straight now avoid penalties later.

                              You could be out more then you think. Remember ignorance is not a defense. I personally would not advertise my possible financial/tax dilemas online for everyone (tax investigators) to see.

                              Both you, your owner/employer and your bather are liable to the IRS and the state you live in. You need to straighten out the mess now so if and when you are audited you will have the answers.

                              If your owner/employer made an honest mistake then they should reimburse you for your loss, your whole loss. If neither of you kept books then how can you figure it out? Maybe you can average an adjusted loss and multiply by the weeks worked.

                              You and your boss need to work this out and put it to bed. Then you need to get on the correct track and do things that cannot bite you in the butt down the line. By the way can you spell "Conspiracy"? You also established over and above the "pay" problem that you share substancial "tips". Were they claimed?

                              Your owner is foolish in the way she deals with her "employees". If she did not want to deal with payroll she should have leased you the business and have you responsible for payroll and then took her agreed upon cut.

                              Sometimes when we try and save money it costs us a whole lot more in the long run. It is better to be safe then sorry. By the way it is not the IRS that you have to worry about they make deals all the time. You will find that your state to be more agressive, punitive and hardline.

                              Find a good accountant and make a plan.

                              Good Luck,

                              Chuck

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