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Pancreatitis b/c of dog food?

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  • Pancreatitis b/c of dog food?

    So I have a customer w/a small yorkie/poodle mix ... that comes in for grooming and several months ago started buying "taste of the wild" dog food for this dog & her lab (which I have never seen before b/c apparently this lab doesn't need grooming).

    She tells me today that they lab was at the vet b/c he was throwing up bile, and has pancreatitis. (Her whole explanation was quite unclear). She says this is b/c he is allergic to something in the food, and "Do you know, have they done REASEARCH on this type of food like they do Purnina, or Iams?" and just wants to let me know so I can warn other customers (???) She also adds that the vet said maybe he should not have been on a 'grain free' diet.

    This conversation was all over the place ... I could barely respond, but have a call into the vet who will not be in until monday.

    What's the deal??? can anyone explain this or make sense of any of it? I'm a bit worried, but I also think she just didn't get it quite straight from the vet. A TON of my customers are on this food, my own dogs, and plenty of breeders I know use this w/no problems.

  • #2
    Made both my Dogs throw up

    I switched them slowly over 3wks and will the full conversion they both threw up. My lil toy does not throw up food and has been on all sorts of food including Evo! So got suspicious and looked online.
    Found out it was a Diamond food, a food Im already not trusting of with all the recalls and all. Plus found this on the Dog Food Project about the grain free, at the least:

    - The "ocean fish meal" is mehnaden
    - Note: On 12/15/08 I was informed by Diamond that the company itself does not preserve its foods with ethoxyquin. At the same time they refused to disclose preservatives used by their suppliers, stating they are "considered proprietary". This is of concern to me, since I don't think a supplier or company would deliberately keep silent about not using ethoxyquin. Buyer beware, you aren't getting all the information you are entitled to here.
    - AAFCO Nutritional Adequacy Statement: All Life Stages.

    I personally would never knowingly feed a Diamond food, and causing both my dogs to throw up after eating the food is a huge red flag to me! In this day and age one cannot be too careful what one feeds their pets IMO... and I am not at cautious as some other pet owners.

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    • #3
      I looked up pancreatitis on The Dog Food Project. It said that the most common causes are a diet that is high fat and low protein, genetics, obesity, drugs, or other underlying health problems like diabetes. It said nothing about it being caused by a grain-free diet. I'd check the dog's family history first. Just my $0.02.

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      • #4
        Yes, I will be curious to know what the vet has to say, I also feed my poodles TOTW and they all do very well on it.
        ***Darlynn***
        ***DON"T HATE ME BECAUSE IM POODLEFUL!!***

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        • #5
          TOTW is a Diamond food, yes.

          And the food is preserved with ethoxyquin (a rubber preservative linked to cancer that is also present in minute amounts in some herbs and spices), yes. That is a whole different matter entirely here, however. (And on that note, ALL Diamond foods are preserved with ethoxyquin.)

          Grain free food in and of itself is a wonderful thing.

          "Do you know, have they done REASEARCH on this type of food like they do Purnina, or Iams?"

          So what, she would rather feed her dog nothing but corn? Has she taken a look at the ingredients in either of these foods?

          Dogs are CARNIVORES. (http://www.rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html) They were designed to eat MEAT. Not grains. Feeding a dog as if it were an omnivore, or worse, an herbivore lacking all meat, is seriously taxing on all organs, including the liver, pancreas, and kidneys because it is working overtime to process junk that the body doesn't need and cant use, and starves the dog because it is lacking any proper nutrition that the body can actually use.

          Not to mention a company whose "testing" she is such a proponent of KILLS animals. (http://www.iamscruelty.com/) THAT'S who she wants to support? (I digress, we're not talking about supporting companies, we're talking about what's best for our own carnivorous animals.)

          No, feeding a grain free diet is not going to kill your dog, but if you're feeding them nothing but corn and floor sweepings, you might as well kill them, because you're just doing it slowly from the inside out anyway.

          Do you know what kind of education veterinarians get in vet school? They get a seminar or two led by a Hills (science diet) representative. (Sometimes Eukanuba, Purina, and Iams as well) telling them "Science Diet is good. Here is free food for your pets. Sell it in your practices and make money off it."

          Most vets haven't a clue about nutrition unless they seek it out on their own, and most vets simply don't have time for that. They are busy being veterinarians. They are not nutritionists. Do your own research and draw your own conclusions. Look at the ingredients in the bag and ask yourself, is this a species appropriate diet? If you're looking at a bag of corn and grains, the answer is no.

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          • #6
            i to am freaking about the food thing

            I have been reading every thing i can find as a multipe dog family 9 at the moment 3 being stpoo pups i worry about everything they eat also i have lost 2 dogs in 4 months from strange illness not related one brain disorder in a 7 month old poodle one kidney failure in a 5 yr old puppy mill yorkie both were on a raw diet 4 of my others are on the same raw food although i am freaking a bit not really believing in coinsidence they are all doing very well I am trying to figure out what to feed the puppys right now they are on california natural doing well with some chicken and raw chicken necks for a snack But i really bel;ieve in the total raw diet momma poodle doesnt like it so for now she is eating what pups are eating with cottage cheese and chicken so any advice i am listening

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            • #7
              Pancreatitis is normally caused by high fat content like a person with Gall bladder problems. Its effects older dogs more so then younger dogs since thier metabolism changes as they age. While TOTW is a good food it may just have been too much fat and protien for that particular dog. My 10 year old chihuahua had a problem with her Innova about 2 years ago and it was the same food she had been eating forever. Her metoblism changed and the Innova was just too rich for her. She is now on California Natural Lamb and rice wet and has not had any problems since.

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              • #8
                Dogs are NOT CARNIVORES! They are opportunistic feeders, and their diet is OMNIVEROUS! The proponents of raw feeding will argue that point until you want to stab out your eardrums, but if you watch dogs eat, you'll know it's NOT a myth that dogs are omnivores. Oh, and they CAN thrive on a totally vegetarian diet if one balances the necessary nutrients correctly.

                Please don't try to tell me the coyotes who ate my tomatoes, corn, and beans are carnivores. And no, it wasn't raccoons. I caught them in the act, on more than one occasion, over a number of years. I've seen them pulling the seed heads from the grasses in the pasture fields, time and again. Seed heads. That's another word for grains.

                Dogs eat poop. They love poop. They eat cow poop, horse poop, rabbit poop, amongst others. What do you think is in all that poop? Grass and grain.

                They eat the stomach and intestinal contents of their prey. What do you think is in a cow or horse stomach? Grass and grain.

                My own dogs will eat a carrot or green bean before they eat meat. If they were true carnivores they wouldn't care less about a carrot or bean. The average dog will eat anything that doesn't eat him first.

                All animals need specific nutrients. Very few need specific food stuffs. Dogs are not one of those. It doesn't matter to the dog's body where the amino acids come from, animal or plant, so long as they get the ones they need. Ditto for all the other nutrients.

                As someone who damned near killed her dog trying to switch him to a raw diet because I was stupid enough to believe the lies...lies like dogs can't get salmonella...this is something that gets on my last nerve. Dogs CAN get salmonella. And campylobacter. And listeria. And a host of other food bourne illnesses. Anyone who says otherwise is either trying to sell you a bill of goods or flat out lying.

                Personally, I'd rather buy food from a company that "...kills animals" than from one that's done no research of their own. After all, what do you think is going into all those foods, no matter who's making them? Dead animals, that's what!

                And, to the OP, yes diet is one of the major causes of pancreatitis. It doesn't always mean the food is high fat/low protein, either. Oli gets if he eats plain old chicken.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by minimezmom View Post
                  i have lost 2 dogs in 4 months from strange illness not related one brain disorder in a 7 month old poodle one kidney failure in a 5 yr old puppy mill yorkie both were on a raw diet 4 of my others are on the same raw food although i am freaking a bit not really believing in coinsidence they are all doing very well I am trying to figure out what to feed the puppys right now they are on california natural doing well with some chicken and raw chicken necks for a snack But i really bel;ieve in the total raw diet momma poodle doesnt like it so for now she is eating what pups are eating with cottage cheese and chicken so any advice i am listening
                  Mini, not all dogs can have a high protein diet. My toy poodle has liver dysfuntion and cannot have high amounts of protein, because she will have seizures. Protein, esp red meat produces high amount of toxins in the blood that the already impaired liver cannot remove and cause Hepatic Encelopathy(sp) thru build up. Some of the symptoms seem nuerological and is incorrectly diagnosed as such. As per my MIL her kidney girl is not allowed a lot of protein either. If you look at SD rx diets the KD is lower protein than the LD. Unfortunately a lot of dogs go undiagnosed.. Im not sure about kidneys, but to check to see if there is *any* liver impairment the most accurate initial test is the fasting blood serum Bile Acids Test, anything else may or may not show anything. I know feeding a liver dog too much protein can lead to liver failure and death. So RAW is definitely NOT good for all dogs, unless it is a healthy dog.

                  It is going to be a personal choice as to what you feed. Go with the best food you can afford. I personally feed Fromm's Four-star Nutritionals, and if I wasnt too lazy I would cook for the dogs, but I am lol. I go with the best kibble I can afford. My mini bitch had pups recently and she was on FFSN chicken and veggie plus Nupro Joint Supplement. She delivered healthy pups with a lot of coat, then continued on the diet while lactating. She produced lots of milk and the pups grew very quickly lol, but my point is that they started eating her kibble at 4wks! So when they started to wean they started weaning them on Proplan. I used to feed this but now would never touch the stuff. It is what a lot poodle breeders even top poodle handlers feed their dogs, so the breeder wanted to get the pups on this. They initially refused the stuff lol. They def liked the Fromm's better.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Helly View Post
                    Dogs are NOT CARNIVORES! They are opportunistic feeders, and their diet is OMNIVEROUS!

                    And, to the OP, yes diet is one of the major causes of pancreatitis. It doesn't always mean the food is high fat/low protein, either. Oli gets if he eats plain old chicken.
                    Thanks Helly ... & good point - I hear so many differnet opinions about feeding dogs that it just baffles my mind.

                    but what would your response be to the customer who's dog has pancreatitis? I guess it could be blamed on the food ... since it is diet related, but am I at fault for reccommending this food? should I not be reccommending it to certain dogs??

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                    • #11
                      Pancreatitis is usually caused by diet. That doesn't mean the food is bad, it just means either that dog can't handle that food, or it was just too much too quick. I feed grain free foods, my dogs do way better on them than foods that contain grains. My dogs have never had pancreatitis.

                      Helly, I just have to disagree w/ you here. I do believe that dogs are opportunistic feeders. Yes they eat poop, yes they might eat the stomach of an animal that eats grains. I think what you are missing is that it is and would be a very small amount of their diet. They are still going to eat mostly meat, fruits and vegetables (no grains are not figured into the vegetable category). Physiologically speaking, the canine body is designed to be carnivorous. Look at the teeth, they have no flat teeth meant to grind grains, like cows and horses. Their teeth are meant to shread and tear. Their digestive tracts are relatively short for their bodies, meant to digest meats. Cows even have 2 stomachs and very long digestive tracts. You can get protein and nutrients from grains, it just takes a body way longer to break them down, i.e. you need lots of intestine. And as far as cow poop, it is already digested when it comes out, it would actually be better for the dog to eat cow poop than to eat the food being fed to the cow. Lets also remember grain free foods do contain fruits and vegetables. I use apple slices and baby carrots as treats all the time, but those are not grains. I have fed many different types of food, many different brands over the year, but the grain free foods have always been so much better for my dogs. I own 4 different dogs, 2 mix breeds and 2 danes ranging from 12 years to 5 years and they absolutely flourish on the grain free. There is a huge reason those *evil* grain free foods are becoming more popular, most dogs are just healthier on them.
                      I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free.
                      -Michelangelo

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