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  • Help! Nervous poodle breeder

    Okay I am calmed down now. Mary J. is not due till March 6th. Her x-ray showed 4 pups. I started to routinely take her temp tonite,of course to watch for that drop. The only other bitch I had was textbook,stayed normal range till very close101-102,then didn't go below 100 till very close,then within hours of going below 99f The puppies started. She had 3 litters. They were all born on day 63. Textbook. I took Mary J. temp an hour ago to start monitoring ,and got her at 99.8f freaked out phoned vet ,and a breeder friend who both said this can happen within a week,and not to worry too much. So I feel better now,but can anyone else share? I'm still a bit shakey,as it seems low to me.
    "Everyone needs something to beleive in..I beleive I need another Poodle"
    Quote:Cath

  • #2
    Originally posted by Poodleluv View Post
    Okay I am calmed down now. Mary J. is not due till March 6th. Her x-ray showed 4 pups. I started to routinely take her temp tonite,of course to watch for that drop. The only other bitch I had was textbook,stayed normal range till very close101-102,then didn't go below 100 till very close,then within hours of going below 99f The puppies started. She had 3 litters. They were all born on day 63. Textbook. I took Mary J. temp an hour ago to start monitoring ,and got her at 99.8f freaked out phoned vet ,and a breeder friend who both said this can happen within a week,and not to worry too much. So I feel better now,but can anyone else share? I'm still a bit shakey,as it seems low to me.
    Helly?Sibes?Poodlemom?Five?Swiss?and all the other smart experienced people are you here?
    "Everyone needs something to beleive in..I beleive I need another Poodle"
    Quote:Cath

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    • #3
      Jeez...I was reading as fast as I could, lol! Breezy definitely had one drop, then back up about 4 days prior. My breeder told me pups due on the 25th...remember...since she forgot about the "outside tie". Pups actually came at 6 am on the 23rd...and her temp had only dropped to 100.3 the previous night.....but behaviour was the giveaway.

      Your 63 days is counted from the VERY FIRST "union"...right?????
      Just keep an eye on her...jeez...I can't believe I even told you that! I think it's totally normal...but you'll very likely see real behaviour changes as well when the time is close. Possible loss of appetite, maybe a little vomiting, very restless, nesting, anxious type stuff.

      I feel like a nervous Auntie!!!!!!
      Often it's not what you say, but how you say it.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by 4Sibes View Post
        Jeez...I was reading as fast as I could, lol! Breezy definitely had one drop, then back up about 4 days prior. My breeder told me pups due on the 25th...remember...since she forgot about the "outside tie". Pups actually came at 6 am on the 23rd...and her temp had only dropped to 100.3 the previous night.....but behaviour was the giveaway.

        Your 63 days is counted from the VERY FIRST "union"...right?????
        Just keep an eye on her...jeez...I can't believe I even told you that! I think it's totally normal...but you'll very likely see real behaviour changes as well when the time is close. Possible loss of appetite, maybe a little vomiting, very restless, nesting, anxious type stuff.

        I feel like a nervous Auntie!!!!!!
        Thanks Sibes. Yes I counted from the first tie. I'm going to continue to monitor the temp,but try to relax about it I guess. In the case of Mary J. a more scientific approach would most likely be refusing to eat a chicken weiner. Something Major would have to be going on! LOL
        "Everyone needs something to beleive in..I beleive I need another Poodle"
        Quote:Cath

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        • #5
          Puppy Breath!!

          It's not necessarily 63 days from the date of the first breeding. It is 63 days from the time the eggs are ripe. Puppies can be born, healthy and normal, anywhere from 59 - 67 days from the date of the first tie (or artificial insemination).

          I always know when my girls whelping is imminent - they get very restless and clingy, and start nesting. Usually the pups are born within 48 hours. I always take temps, too, but I've had fluctuations within 7 days of whelping. Is her milk in yet? That's another good sign, too. How about the mucus plug? Keep and eye on that. Also, my girls usually stop eating 12 hours before whelping.

          You have your whelping kit ready, right? All necessary supplements? Goats milk, Just Born or Esbilac? (Just in case)

          The last litter I had was over 2 years ago. It was a difficult one for mom, needed vet assistance to pull pups - her contractions just weren't strong enough and the pups were big. Luckily everybody was OK, even the biggest guy who had the hardest time being born - the only one of the 3 to finish his AKC championship - he was only 18 months old when he finished.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Petekids View Post
            It's not necessarily 63 days from the date of the first breeding. It is 63 days from the time the eggs are ripe. Puppies can be born, healthy and normal, anywhere from 59 - 67 days from the date of the first tie (or artificial insemination).

            I always know when my girls whelping is imminent - they get very restless and clingy, and start nesting. Usually the pups are born within 48 hours. I always take temps, too, but I've had fluctuations within 7 days of whelping. Is her milk in yet? That's another good sign, too. How about the mucus plug? Keep and eye on that. Also, my girls usually stop eating 12 hours before whelping.

            You have your whelping kit ready, right? All necessary supplements? Goats milk, Just Born or Esbilac? (Just in case)

            The last litter I had was over 2 years ago. It was a difficult one for mom, needed vet assistance to pull pups - her contractions just weren't strong enough and the pups were big. Luckily everybody was OK, even the biggest guy who had the hardest time being born - the only one of the 3 to finish his AKC championship - he was only 18 months old when he finished.
            Yup ,got it all from Esbilac ti little cord ties made of disinfected dental floss,Thanks for the reassurance about the temp fluctuation. I really did not know they could go that low without being super close.
            "Everyone needs something to beleive in..I beleive I need another Poodle"
            Quote:Cath

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            • #7
              It is important to remember that when numbers are given (such as 63) numbers like these are averages. No bitch ever reads the book. Yes, some are absolutely textbook normal, but many, many are not. I think my girls read the book just so they can know how not to be normal.

              I can honestly say that I don't even take temperatures anymore. Really, as far as my girls are concerned, they are all over the temp guage that I feel it just makes me over worried or over confident. My very first broodbitch would spike a fever before she delivered. My second was low for a week prior to delivery. And, from there I listed to my vet and simply quit taking it. Normal temp for a dog will range between 100 and 102.5. At 99.8, your girl is still normal. A drop in temp will be substantial, and notably below 99.0. Unless you have been taking her temp, you don't really know what her normal actually is. Her normal may run right around 100. Remember with all warm blooded animals (ourselves included) temperature actually fluxuates slightly throughout a 24 hour period. So, pick one time of the day and stick with that time for your temperature monitoring. For example, test her at 8 am every morning. Do not check her multiple times a day or you really will drive your vet crazy.

              If you watch your girl, she will tell you when something is going to happen. Watch her mannerisms. She'll pant when she is going into labor, she's going to be uncomfortable for at least the day before. There will be behavior changes, and that is one thing you can count on.

              How long a time period was she bred over? For example, sometimes the time span between the first and last breeding is as long as a week. When the span is that long, narrow it down, as odds are the first breeding or two was simply too early, maybe the last breeding was too late. If AIs were done several days before a natural breeding occurred, the natural breeding is most likely the correct timing and the humans simply jumped the gun with their assistance. Did you do any progesterone testing? If so, you may be able to narrow down the timing even closer.

              Just make sure you have your supplies on hand. Make sure you have a good chick flick or two to watch to keep you awake in case this all happens through the night, and I strongly suggest laying in a supply of ice cream. Not only is it a nice little sugar/calcium boost for the bitch should she get a little tired, but a nice big bowl will help calm your nerves as well.

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              • #8
                I have always just watched for the body to change shape, just before they whelp they will often drop away from their backbone. They will also start to nest. The last litter Tinkerbell had, I happened to see her peeking under the bed one morning so I took her to work with me and she whelped in the afternoon. It was day 59.

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                • #9
                  Agree with Swiss and Petgroom. Never take temps anymore and go by shape and body language. RELAX! As hard as that is to do. LOL
                  <a href="http://www.groomwise.typepad.com/grooming_smarter" target="_blank">My Blog</a> The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why. –Mark Twain

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                  • #10
                    Part of my kit

                    is several injectable doses of Calcium and Oxytocin. When contractions start I give one sub q dose of Calcium and if she goes for a long time in between puppies she gets a dose of Oxytocin IM. Very seldom do I need to use all I am given by my vet.

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                    • #11
                      Not an expert

                      Just had my first litter of expected st poo pups I was a nervous wreck they are a month old today still a wreck < I started the temp checking on day 57 she dropped on day 60 went up a little and then had the pups day 61 first litter she was ai bred only once had 3 pups < [I] understand your frustration and anxiety my vet just about hates me at the moment just a little paranoid but nature is awesome the moms do great ! Good luck and post pics as soon as they come !!!

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                      • #12
                        Thanks guys. Lots of good advice,experience. Believe it or not I have lots of experience helping other people with every whelping,and pet health problem, I can think of. But that was a long time ago ,when I worked for the vet,in a tiny isolated community. And my little avatar bitch Hattie,well she had her litters like she read a medical textbook. Stood for her first breeding on day 10/ had her pups on the 63rd day after/ all 3 litters. I get nervous when it is my bitch,she is my pet ,and I am very attached..
                        "Everyone needs something to beleive in..I beleive I need another Poodle"
                        Quote:Cath

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                        • #13
                          Okay, freaking again. 99.1f at 9:00 am. I am not going to able to think straight till all 4 are tucked in that whelping box with mom. SERENITY NOW LOL
                          "Everyone needs something to beleive in..I beleive I need another Poodle"
                          Quote:Cath

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                          • #14
                            Step away from the themometor! Not all bithches have much variation, nesting, restless, milk starting, then get a mikes and let her alone, unless she gets into trouble.
                            ~~Everyone is entitled to my opinion!~~

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                            • #15
                              Gee, it's been so long since I actually had a bitch whelp I've been struggling to remember it all. I do know I didn't take Rondy's temperature, because she was such a Bbeeeeeotch about it. And she really didn't give me any warning. I was sitting on the sofa watching TV. Rondy was laying next to me, chewing on a bone. Next thing I new she jumped down, squatted over the news paper, and popped out half a pup. I say half, because I had to pull the second half out for her. She'd get "em half way out, and leave 'em hanging there. And she delived 4 more in a little more than 45 minutes.

                              The only other thing I remember was having to watch her like a hawk because she was the type of bitch that would carry the cleaning up a bit too far. I was afraid she's disembowel the pups if she'd been left to her own devices.

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