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  • How could they !

    I have/had a client for years, small yorkie/poo... really sensitive skin, allergies, skin like paper. The owner was a friend of ours but she had the chance to move out west so she did. Much tears & hugs and off she went. She called me the other day, seems she took 'our' little boy to a groomer out there. This shop promotes itself as cage free... the dogs are all running around TOGETHER in her shop! Well, first the owner explained, he has allergies & had a few spots on him that are close to bald btu we always went over him with a #1 snap on. They shaved him bald! said ti was to match the one spot on him... OH MY GOD !

    She called me in tears.. I told her she would need to keep t-shirts or something on him.. he will sunburn, second .. it will take close to a year for his coat to grow back.. I know, when she first came to us I saw how sensititve his skin was and I know his coat..

    GOD do we need licensing or what!!!

    sorry to rant like this but I am stunned someone was so 'unknowledgable' to have done this. OK now Im done....

  • #2
    Do you really think licensing is going to stop bad haircuts? It sure hasn't stopped human stylists from doing bad haircuts, so what makes you think it would be any different for groomers? It's kinda like the old question; what do you call a med school student who graduates at the bottom of the class? DOCTOR! There's good and bad in every profession, whether it's licensed or not.

    I doubt it's a case of not knowing better, too. Some people just do things differently. It might be the way they were taught, but I suspect some of those bad haircuts we see are done by people who think it looks good, because that's what they like. And lets be honest, even in a case like this, it's still just hair. It'll grow, even if it grows slowly.

    Personally, I wouldn't have left a dog like that in a shop where the dogs are allowed to run free. In fact, I wouldn't leave any dog at a shop where they're all allowed to run free. That's just an accident waiting to happen.

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    • #3
      I've felt the same way. When I was sick with the flu a client was out of town and her sister was taking care of her dog and brought him to her groomer. Supposedly she was told if she couldn't leave him at least an inch, not to groom him. Well, she buzzed him down. I have never had to go short on this dog and the mom was so beside herself when she saw him. He looked like a shaved rat. Thanfully he doesn't have skin issues or allergies to worry about, but he was also knicked in a few places and the cut was incredibly choppy looking. I don't know how you can't get a smooth look when you're shaving down a Havanese? It was terrible. I was upset for the owner when I saw him.
      What a caterpillar considers the end of his world, we call a butterfly.

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      • #4
        Would regulation and licensing work? This case is proof. In Florida, any idiot can get clippers, combs, and a cheap set of scissors and call themselves a pet groomer. If you want to work on human hair, you have to show proof of training, get a professional permit, and continue to get education and prove it.

        Would licensing prevent bad haircuts? No. Would it put a lot of fly by night "groomers" out of business? You bet it would! With this bad economy, there has been an explosion of "pet groomers" that have opened up "businesses" in my area. They pay no attention to zoning, tax, or business license laws. I doubt they pay taxes. They break the laws that legitimate businesses have to follow.

        Their work is shoddy because they have no idea what they are doing. I've had a few customers go to them, because they charge much less than I do. But the customers come back when they see what they get for their $20 groom.

        Like my husband says "Quality is like buying feed for your horse. If you want clean, fresh oats and hay, you must pay a fair price. If you will settle for feed that has already been THROUGH a horse, that comes much cheaper."
        Last edited by kats_melody; 02-10-10, 12:18 PM.
        "With God's help, all things are possible!"
        Laura Lee Ray
        I am kats_melody on eGroomer. Follow my Twitter tweets - @ZOOMGROOM on Twitter.com

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        • #5
          If she happened to move to southern CA, I think I know the shop you are talking about! Lol.

          In all seriousness, I'm sorry that happened. :/ But also know that it grows back. There's nothing you can really do about it now so chalk it up to a lesson learned. Also, what I've done in the past is type up exactly what I do for my clients if they go to a new groomer. There may be little variances here and there due to individual style, but the overall length and look should be similar.
          There are 3 different kinds of people in this world: Dog people, cat people, and rational people who don't have a problem liking two things at the same time.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Helly View Post
            Personally, I wouldn't have left a dog like that in a shop where the dogs are allowed to run free. In fact, I wouldn't leave any dog at a shop where they're all allowed to run free. That's just an accident waiting to happen.
            That was my first thought as well. I have a nearby shop that is cage free, even for BOARDING and they have had several accidents resulting in the death if pets. No way no how! I don't even like to put dogs from the same house in kennels together.
            <a href="http://www.groomwise.typepad.com/grooming_smarter" target="_blank">My Blog</a> The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why. –Mark Twain

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            • #7
              [QUOTE=kats_melody;389859]Would regulation and licensing work? This case is proof. In Florida, any idiot can get clippers, combs, and a cheap set of scissors and call a pet groomer. If you want to work on human hair, you have to show proof of training, get a professional permit, and continue to get education and prove it.

              Would licensing prevent bad haircuts? No. Would it put a lot of fly by night "groomers" out of business? You bet it would! With this bad economy, there has been an explosion of "pet groomers" that have opened up "businesses" in my area. They pay no attention to zoning, tax, or business license laws. I doubt they pay taxes. They break the laws that legitimate businesses have to follow.

              Their work is shoddy because they have no idea what they are doing. I've had a few customers go to them, because they charge much less than I do. But the customers come back when they see what they get for their $20 groom.QUOTE]

              Seriously, while regulation might "work", it won't work. If you want to fight that nightmare, go right on supporting regulation, but I promise you once you have it you'll hate it.

              Human hairdressers originally had to be licensed because of the chemicals they use. I don't know about you, but I don't give dog perms. I straighten hair with a brush and hot air, not with chemical relaxers. This comparison is used a lot, but in some regards we're talking apples and oranges. But some of 'em still do bad haircuts.

              We do not need more government regulation. The laws we already have in place would remedy many of the ills we see in grooming...but they aren't enforced. Of course, I'm not talking about hair cuts. I'm talking about health, safety, and humane handling. The quality of haircuts isn't the government's business.

              As for all the groomers who do bad haircuts? Why do I care? Why should any of us care? As long as the grooming is done humanely, I don't give a fat rat if the hair cut stinks. It's a haircut, not brain surgery. Why would I get my nickers in a twist over a bad haircut on someone else's dog? If dog owners don't like it, let them vote with their feet. But if they don't care, I can assure you the dog doesn't care. Why should you?

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              • #8
                Ultimately licensing of any trade is about the "fiduciary relationship between the provider and the customer."

                In one of these relationships the focus then is heavily on education of the provider, and DISCLOSURE. The customer has the right to know about anything about your services or products used where it affects SAFETY of people and pets, in our case.

                Again, don't you signoff papers for this and that procedure in medical and dental offices today? Even some contractor arrangements.

                The consumer has the right to know _________ fill-in the blanks to "make an informed decision" whether to use your services or not.

                We as a body derive those standards and what is to be disclosed. In the extreme, if you did use tranquilizers, in a licensed industry, you would have to get a signature of the pet owner indeed, or have it made illegal in the first place unless done by a vet.

                So that's why and how my parents made up the client brochure in From Problems to Profits, it made a lot of disclosure without looking like a formal agreement.

                So we could do lots of research. Every licensed trade has done this work, what needs to be disclosed to protect the consumer, and in our case, the pet too.

                Of course some licensed people don't follow and every year licenses are taken away. So forgot about licensing promoting better styling as a core of its reason for being. No, every congressperson knows the heart and soul of vocational licensing is the standards set for the fiduciary relationship, in our case, groomer/pet owner.

                Then you look at mandatory education required etc...and that's why some of the licensing we see out there is not so good, or terrible. It's more like statutory criminal law even. You have to work with congresspersons that know vocational licensing and professional conduct code, then you would see a big difference if in case licensing is forced upon us.

                Most lawsuits between provider and client always get down to disclosure issues, there you go. If it has to be, groomers should organize and write their minimum standards of education, testing and fiduciary relationship procedures, and then have a congressperson format it into code style together.

                The one benefit that is certain is that we could get rid of LEGAL overnight groomers, and abusive groomers, well, to a great deal. Some won't go through the licensing process, but some will. Then unfortunately if there is an incident or two, you can actually pull the license and prevent a truly abusive groomer from grooming, unless they continue to work unlicensed and in that case it is a felony, and they go to jail. My family along with others actually has done that to a medical professional that went bad, so it does happen and is enforced. He went to jail for years even. Certainly there would be a searchable database for all the groomers, and what a joy that could be for employers to do background checks.

                But before making me the big proponent of vocational licensing I repeat again and again, no, we can and should do it ourselves with an alternative program we develop but outside of this board where the majority network well, and some grooming associations, are not the majority of pet groomers still bickering about one another, their employer or ? Tens of thousands of groomers don't even go to one trade show.

                It's more likely the powers that be will one day come down on us, but the current economic problems which will not go away soon, is going to have an effect. Issues like licensing groomers pale in comparison to restoring a new economy. It actually buys us time to get together and do something on our own, and that's a long side topic.
                Most questions regarding GroomerTALK are answered in the Board Help Talk Forum. Thanks for coming to our community a part of PetGroomer.com https://www.petgroomer.com.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by OntheBRINKofDisaster View Post
                  If she happened to move to southern CA, I think I know the shop you are talking about! Lol.

                  In all seriousness, I'm sorry that happened. :/ But also know that it grows back. There's nothing you can really do about it now so chalk it up to a lesson learned. Also, what I've done in the past is type up exactly what I do for my clients if they go to a new groomer. There may be little variances here and there due to individual style, but the overall length and look should be similar.
                  I was going to say if she moved to northern california i might have a idea also lol

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                  • #10
                    Yea cage free does not work! Dogs can really get hurt. As far as a bad clip, it will grow back. Tell her to get over it and not take him/her back there. I have gotten several bad haircuts in my 36 years and I lived. I one time when I was starting out was using a #10 blade on a face, forgot to switch my blade and started clipping the body. I was so upset but I did not chaege the client and it was an accident. So her dog got a bad hair cut, luckily she came back and I never did that again.

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                    • #11
                      I have worked in cage free facilities for the last 8 years or so, and have never really had a serious accident. Our dogs are interveiwed we dont take aggresive dogs and our groom dogs are separate from daycare unless they came for daycare and they wanted them groomed while we had them.as long as the person knows how to handle a pack of dogs and knows how to seperate personalities into the correct group its great.I start with 2 groups big and little.then I seperate pups from the group into a group of thier own.if I have any older dogs thAT arent as rambuncouis as the large doge group Ill either put them with the smaller dogs or depending onm the number and size a group of their own too.I have 2 outside yards and 2 indoor play rooms and my office If I have a group in each area ill rotate them every 1 hour or so .I have a seperate groom room for grooming.so those dogs are not part of the equation, I sometimes have an older dog in my office that isnt happy anywhere else.I have it down pat! it can work if you want it to.

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                      • #12
                        Sorry to have started such a hub bub... I just needed to vent I guess.. first off, the dog is a seriously 'challenged' pet with many many issues, second, what little hair he does have he needs!, third they shaved him down to nothing.. when she called me, she told me she had taken him out for a walk, someone yelled out their car "OH look at the cute little Chihuahua".. she was livid to say the least... ti is just I know my customers..

                        She moved to Arizona, not CA by the way.. as to licensing... it may not do much in some minds being we dont work with chemicals & such (unless you count all the flea dips we used to use now outlawed chemicals! todays are far better toxin wise) BUT I do know way to many 'so called' groomers who have no clue as to what other issues pets can bring into a home.. especially with kids! lets see.. fleas, ticks (lyme disease), ring worm, mange (sarcoptic is contageous to humans) not to mention the biggies.. rabies & such... but we deal with pets who most likely sleep in the kids beds, eat off the same plates as kids (well some kids anyhow) etc... Maybe not licensing per say but at least an aptitude test as to what "basic" issues to include pet safety is my thought.
                        The condition called Happy Tail?... began when groomers shaved entire tails on certain breeds, they split the skin banging on something, have to be cropped.. cant stitch it. That is my thoughts anyhow... bad hair cuts? OK given... cant stop that but shaving a dog with severe skin issues & translucent skin??? yep! should know better I think unless a Vet says to do it..
                        OK enough said.. sorry again all.. rant rant rant....ROFL

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                        • #13
                          cage-free

                          There is always exceptions. I am very lucky to be a professional home-based groomer. I have cages that I use. I also have a living room type set-up in grooming salon that is fenced off for safety. Majority of my clients come to me because their doggies CANNOT be caged. The ones that cannot be caged due to various reasons, are groomed in the afternoon SEPARATELY after the morning doggies are completed and picked-up. So, I pre-screen these doggies over the telephone & have them come in for evaluation. These doggies usually have been banned from every other salon & pay me top dollar. Their only other option is sedation or mobile. They are fantastic doggies until they are caged! One of these guys I caged while I went upstairs to potty because I was concerned for his safety & he had practicallly ripped his teeth out of his jaw from trying to frantically chew his way OUT of the cage. These are extreme exceptions and I am glad I can accomodate these special exceptions!

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                          • #14
                            [QUOTE=Admin;389906]Ultimately licensing of any trade is about the "fiduciary relationship between the provider and the customer."

                            Again, don't you signoff papers for this and that procedure in medical and dental offices today? Even some contractor arrangements.

                            We as a body derive those standards and what is to be disclosed. In the extreme, if you did use tranquilizers, in a licensed industry, you would have to get a signature of the pet owner indeed, or have it made illegal in the first place unless done by a vet.

                            The one benefit that is certain is that we could get rid of LEGAL overnight groomers, and abusive groomers, well, to a great deal. Some won't go through the licensing process, but some will. Then unfortunately if there is an incident or two, you can actually pull the license and prevent a truly abusive groomer from grooming, unless they continue to work unlicensed and in that case it is a felony, and they go to jail. QUOTE]

                            Do I have to sign a plethora of papers before medical or dental procedures? Yes. But I've neven been asked to sign one before I get a shampoo and cut. In fact, I've never been asked to sign anything before I get a perm or color, either. Groomer's aren't doctors or dentists (although far too many seem to think they are).

                            Tranquilizers are prescription drugs. It's already illegal to use them unless under the direction of a vet.

                            OK, let's address that last paragraph. Actually, there's a way around doing lots of "licensed" jobs without having a license, and doing it legally. I won't actually go into it here, because, well, I don't want to be accused of encouraging anyone to do something that some folks might consider shadey. But for years I had my hair done by an unlicensed stylist, and it was legal for her to do it.

                            Admin: Never even said groomers would have to ask pet owners to sign for a shampoo. You still have to disclose. Isn't that why they put stickers on prescription bottles for example. In some states hairstyllist brochures for the business, or a sign, does the disclosure. Geez. Readers should not confuse that disclosure starts when a profession is licensed. No disclosure is on your backs today because you are asking for money for services. It's so easy to win most cases today against most groomers as case law shows, you simply point out that the groomer didn't disclose this or that or both to the customer before accepting the grooming service request and that's it. I've read over 200 lawsuits against groomers and the lack of disclosure sealed the fate of the groomer, period. Vocational licensing would standardize the process and content, but until then if ever, every grooming business owner is already required by commercial conduct codes to disclose what is necessary for the pet owner to make "an informed decision" but that often only comes to light when the groomer is sued and any smart attorney knows to attack on what? Disclosure practice. In fact, sometimes you will find clauses in your insurance policy fine print as this responsibility.

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                            • #15
                              Ahh, the licensing issue yet again. Let me submit this to you. How many bad drivers do you know? Do they have a license? Most yes, very few no..Nuff said...licenses don't work, but it is a [email protected] good way to collect revenue.

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