I got a new toy poodle puppy!

[windfall4]

My co-worker who breeds and shows toy poodles said she had too many puppies to show this year and asked if I would take one and help her out. I was a little hesitant, because I just got a shih-tzu puppy a month ago that I plan on showing. I haven't showed dogs before, so I was intimidated to take on a second show dog, but she is a PRETTY girl. Plus my co-worker is going to help me out, and make all the show entries and what not, she is just going to live with me and I'm going to take care of her grooming and handling. Once she is finished if I want, I can keep her, or I can give her back. If I decide to keep her I'll have to help raise a few litters. She is from a pretty rare line, the Jo Dan line. Her only fault is that she is a little long backed, but she is a very nice mover and has a very nice temperment.

I'll post some pics tonight! Part of the reason she is living with me is to help her hair grow. The other poodles rip all her neck hair out when they play...lol. So you have to ignore how awful her coat looks right now.

[Doubledogdare]

Never shown before and you are taking on a Poodle and Shih Tzu?

Kinda jumping into the deep end of the dog game pool there with two breeds like that!

[Particentral]

I have a problem with this arrangement. I really really do. You will have no rights to this dog but she lives with you, you feed her, you groom her, you vet her and yet IF she finishes you have to give her back OR raise a FEW litters? ummm my dear. That is not the way it works. This woman wants to OWN the dog but not have the day to day responsibilty. You need a written contract spelling out the entire thing right down to who pays for show entries, vet care. WHat happens if she dies at your house? Are you responsible for BUYING HER at show rates? Some breeders would say yes.

Usually when you co own a dog there is a contract. After the dog finishes, there might be ONE litter controlled and bred by the owner, and a puppy back, THEN you get the papers, but this does not seem like what you are doing. Many times, the co owner would keep their name on the dog but nothing else.

I co own an extremely nice show male toy poodle. He is 1/4 inch too tall, but otherwise EXTREMEMLY nice. I share all medical costs evenly with the co owner. I pay food and keep up grooming. We both have breeding priveledges and our contract spells out exactly what the other gets. We each get a puppy if we want from every litter he sires, or the money for the sale of a puppy, whichever we want and we must give the other person at least a week notice he will be bred and acess to pedigees of the bitch is requested. Our contrract also stipulates he is to be available to me for competitions at all times and that competitions trump everything else! LOL. Had to enforce this once last year. SHe had plans to breed him the same week as the Chicago show.

One other thing. Poodles are a hard breed to get into. They are primarily a professional handler breed. IF she is long bodied it will be hard to finish her as a newbie. JMHO.

[luvpups]

Agree with Parti, make sure to talk with some others that deal with co-ownership and get a contract.

[fiveoclockdog]

Parti's right. No contract, no deal.

Oh! and Parti, why doesn't your co-owner freeze a little semen for timing conflicts like the last one?

[Particentral]

Parti's right. No contract, no deal.

Oh! and Parti, why doesn't your co-owner freeze a little semen for timing conflicts like the last one?

Not a bad idea at all! He has only been bred once so far, and will NOT be overly bred by any means. It was an odd situation. Someone who knew the breeder Luke came from called Marilyn and wanted to send her bitch out to her to breed. The woman was not really prepared and we could tell, but she "scheduled" him for the next heat cycle. OH and the genetic tests for breeding are being paid for by my co owner per our agreement. I took him to the vet for them to do his hips and knees, but she paid for them. I DID pay for his eye cerf and his thyroid check because I wanted them done, but she paid me back for something else that I did I was supposed to do. I am pretty lucky in that this works so well. Her hubby was worried he would not be happy or cared for poperly at first but he looks so much better at my house and is so much happier! He is now trying to talk me into taking over on two of her other dogs! ....but as it is I just maintain coats! SO much eaiser! LOL

[Doubledogdare]

Usually when you co own a dog there is a contract. After the dog finishes, there might be ONE litter controlled and bred by the owner, and a puppy back, THEN you get the papers, but this does not seem like what you are doing. Many times, the co owner would keep their name on the dog but nothing else.

Depends on the people involved.

I co-owned a multitude of dogs with different people over a period of decades.

The only time there was a problem was the single time I didn't listen to my gut and signed a contract agreeing to this, that and thus-n-such pertaining to a pup I purchased from a particular breeder. That breeder simply could not keep from crossing the chalk lines on the deal and sinking her fingers into what was actually my dog, not hers.

All the other transactions were nothing more than a verbal agreement and a hand shake. Never had a problem with any of those people. But then I also knew them to be folks with common sense and honesty.

It is the last part that makes all the difference.

[windfall4]

Thanks for your concern. I didn't really explain the whole situation very well, I'm sorry. My co-worker is also a good friend of mine, and one of the most honest people I know. She knew that I wanted to get into showing, which is why I got the shih-tzu. We were talking the other day and I mentioned that I was thinking about maybe getting a show standard poodle in a year or two after my shih-tzu is finished. She was telling me about how she quit showing standards because they are just too much work...etc etc. I told her that I wasn't fond of mini's, and that I wasn't sure I wanted a toy because I'd be so scared I'd break one of their legs or something. She then told me that she had a 6mo old puppy that had some good body on her, wasn't real refined like some of her other dogs. She then told me that if I wanted, I could take her for a while, see how I like her and if I do, I am more than welcome to show her, and after she is finished, if I want I can keep her or give her back. My friend is providing all food, and is paying all the entries, and all expenses. Once she is finished and if I decide to keep her than the bills will be my responsibility, except for any bills having to do with breeding or the puppies.

I know that poodles are a VERY political breed, and I'm ok with that, and so is my friend. She isn't in any hurry to get her finished, plus my friend is pretty well known in the poodle world around here. She said that showing this bitch will be a good way to get my name out there and known among the poodle people.

To be honest with you, I really wanted to do this for the experience. I wanted to learn more about poodle grooming, and eventually I want to show a lot more. Plus, my friend and I both live here at our work. So she is just across the parking lot if I ever need anything. The main reason there is no contract is because I'm not interested in keeping puppies. She told me that I am more than welcome to one if I want...and it just depends on my situation at the time, I may or may not decide to keep one. But I wouldn't want more than one, because I'm not looking to get into breeding.

Anyway, here are a couple of pics of her. Like I said, don't look at her coat. I'm am working on getting it to grow out more. Her brothers and sisters really pulled a bunch out. She also is in desperate need of a good groom, so don't look at her hair cut. I'm trying to get some coat on her before I scissor her.

[ferretlov]

I used to work for a woman who has this type of arrangement with a few of her show poodles , BUT there si a contract,it basicly lists the other person as the co owner. when the papers are filed with akc or ckc both names are on it .she provides the wormers vet care and grooming (becouse she is the groomer) and the co owner prvides the handling and food and the dog lives with the co owner.the dog is to be bred 1 per year for 7 years with the owner getting first pick of the puppies( If a bitch )and the co owner having second pick puppy
the rest is sold and the money split.If a dog-he is available to breed with any one of her other poodles.and outside breedings a fee is charged and split.after 7 years the dog is fully the co-owners and is retired.if either one of the parties cannot keep up with the arrangement full ownership is passed to the other.
I know so much about the contract because I almost got one of the puppies but decided I couldnt handle all the extra work involved.I already had a dog on a similar contract with a freind of mine (A JRT) and I didnt want to start something a had doubts I could finish.But it is a great thing that way every party knows what is expected from the begining.

[4Sibes]

Congrats on the puppy! Gonna be hard w/ 2 puppies that want to play together....and pull each OTHERS hair out...lol!

A friend of mine recently had a co-own situation that may have ended w/ hurt feelings,...were it not for the contract...so I thought I'd dump one more thing on your plate to talk about w/ your friend if you do indeed decide to ultimately keep her.
Even though it's (hopefully) way in the future...spell out exactly what constitutes "a litter".
My friend gave a young finished bitch to another friend, w/ breeding rights for one litter, than spay.
The bitch is now a total house pet, and only dog for a single Mom and teenage daughter...so as you can imagine...spoiled rotten. THE puppy was born on Christmas. Just one, so you can imagine the emotional attachment the Mom and daughter have developed.
In signing the initial contract...it was specified that a "litter" would consist of 2 or more puppies, so Mom and daughter are free to keep this puppy...or return to co-owner...whatever they choose. Of course they are keeping him, lol!

And no one I know of has ended up BIS at Westminster w/ their first show dog...so if it's the experience you are after, and you look at this as a fun exercise in learning the ropes, you'll be fine. Maybe frustrated occasionally...but that's the wonderful world of showing!

I trust my co-owner implicitly as well, nothing in writing, but it does occasionally cross my mind that if something were to go awry...I would be devastated if it impacted our friendship.

[fiveoclockdog]

I should have added that the right co-owner can make showing/breeding a wonderful experience. Like Sibes, I trust my guy 100%. He started me off in the right direction and we're partners now. The best part is that we alternate breedings, and show on opposite coasts. Good luck! (I still think you should have a contract ;-) )

[PrincessPoodle]

Cute baby! Oh course I think all puppies are pretty adorable(its a survival strategy, otherwise who would want something that chews everything up and pees and poops everwhere!) Most competition with animals is politcal (horse shows, dog shows, competitve grooming) but the important thing is you enjoy it and have fun. Otherwise whats the point in doing something unless it provides you with some form of enjoyment, not just a rosette. So have fun with your baby, and consider it a learning experience.

Congrats!!