Question re: bad reaction to vaccines - long

[Kubota]

Received a reminder call today from my vets office for my dogs annual vaccines.
Last year my Havanese got 3 shots, rabies, kennel cough and lepto and then it was my Bichon's turn for his shots, then we went to the front desk to make payment and my Havanese keeled over in anaphalactic shock. Scared the **** out of me. The VT scooped him up and ran to the O/R while the other assistant got the vet out of the consultation room. They did what they needed to do to bring him around and he's been fine.
From some reading that I have done since then, I understand that Havanese can be particularly sensitive to vaccines. I'm thinking that my Vet should have known this, if it is indeed true.
So, to my question...
Do I insist that he only receive one vaccine on this Friday's appointment and then take him back another day for the other one? (he's not due again for rabies until next year) That's what I'm inclined to do. I guess I'm just looking for some support for this so I don't get talked into doing something that would be harmful to my beloved Muggie Bug if my vet really doesn't know what she should.
I've already arranged to leave him there afterwards, while I go to my hairdresser nextdoor, so that they can keep an eye on him for a bit.

[Canopener Sally]

What about asking for a Rabies titer?

[Particentral]

IMO n one of those are needed to the point of risking her life. I think Lepto has the worst cases of shock and reactions. MANY vets are not even dosing it anymore. NEVER heard of KC having that reaction.....then again, I don;t like THAT vacc at all....and giving all three at once was too much IMO. I am a big believer in single shots ONLY as needed.

Research vaccines and ask questions. PERSONALLY I would NOT do any vaccines again except 3 year rabies. PERIOD. Not sure I would even do those if I could titer instead.

You should know too, that Bichons are SUPER sensitive to vaccines. Some have deadly reactions to basic core vaccines.

[edderland]

My vet uses the 3 year vaccine protocol endorsed by the AVMA, and being taught in many vet schools. Dogs only need their core vaccines every 3 years, perhaps even longer.
Especially if they have had a bad reaction.
My dogs have been on this protocol for years, and will remain on it. Please do a search for vaccine protocalls, and think carefully before doing annuals on your dogs.
Deidre

[odette]

Both of these ladys are right on, not only do research but think, Do you get annual vacs? Do children get annual vacs? Then why do we do this to our pets, Ihad a g.s.d. that had horrid reactions to rabies, vet did it to save my a$$ ,didn't want to.

[Kubota]

Who to believe?

I have been reading more about vaccines, since the "incident".
Mostly, I find the information more confusing than anything and the only thing that I know that I've learned for sure is that I can't really trust my vet. (Unfortunately, the other vet in town is worse.)
She recommends the kennel cough because I groom out of my home and other dogs are coming and going. The Lepto she recommends because our dogs spend quite a bit of time in "cottage country" and are possibly exposed to the urine of the animals that can carry it.
Can anyone recommend some good websites with solid, knowledgeable, accurate information on vaccine protocol?

[4Sibes]

My vet uses the 3 year vaccine protocol endorsed by the AVMA, and being taught in many vet schools. Dogs only need their core vaccines every 3 years, perhaps even longer.
Especially if they have had a bad reaction.
My dogs have been on this protocol for years, and will remain on it. Please do a search for vaccine protocalls, and think carefully before doing annuals on your dogs.
Deidre

My dogs have been on this protocol for years as well...even before the AVMA revised vaccine protocol. Finally.
IN ADDITION...I do as Parti suggested, and have for the past 10 years...only had 1 vaccine administered at a time to a dog. I then wait 2 to 4 weeks before the next, if a "next" is called for.

In our State...a rabies vaccine every 3 years for adult dogs and cats is the law....no getting around that w/ titers, must have proof of current vaccine, so that one must be administered.

I'll be honest...in researching all of this 10-12 years ago, there are as many websites as there are opinions about how and what your dog should be vaccinated against.

I found that the best thing I could do...was to educate myself, and then based on what I learned...make an educated decision as to how vaccinating my pets would be approached.

A good example is the risk of Lepto is high in my area too, so as much as I am reluctant to vaccinate for it....I do, because of the increased chance of my dogs coming in contact with it.
I also vaccinate for bordetella because my dogs are exposed to dogs at dog shows, dog races, dog training classes, the vet's office, and yes...even the grooms that walk into my house from local boarding kennels.

I don't combine vaccines, and I have big, strong, tough dogs. Knowing me...I definitely would not combine vaccines w/ smaller or more sensitive poochies. No way.

The other benefit to splitting up vaccines...is (Gawd forbid) there was another reaction...at least you would be clear as to which vaccine it is your dog can not tolerate.

[D'tails]

Believe the science. Most vets ignore the science for economic reasons.

The 3 year protocol has been accepted since 2002 and your vet chooses to ignore this.

The 3 year protocol is based on a loosening of historical precedent and is not scientifically backed in any way.

7 year studies have shown immunity 7 years after vaccination.

"Boosters" do not enhance immunity - read up on memory cells and their function in immunity.

Purdue studies have shown that puppies develop auto antibodies that attack their own tissues after vaccination.

Kennel cough and lepto are worthless vaccines because they do not determine which of many strains a dog may potentially be exposed to.

Lepto and rabies vaccines carry with t hem the highest risk of severe reactions.

Most of the diseases that dogs are vaccinated against are either very rare, or diseases that affects young puppies with immature immune systems.

Vacine labels state that they should only be given to healthy dogs. Your dog should receive a vaccine waiver based on it's history.

"The science has been done." It is up to us to study the facts since the veterinary community is unreliable when it comes to over vaccination issues.

Ask yourself if the risk outweighs the benefit. Do the scientific facts support re vaccination?

Hope this helps.

[borzoimom]

For my own dogs, I only get Rabies, Distemper, and Parvovirus once every 3 years (or 4 when I forget). The following is my opinion on the Kennel Cough or Bordetella: Kennel cough is more likely a problem in a poorly ventilated area. The dogs that are constantly barking, thereby aggravating the tracheal lining are most likely to "catch" the bacteria (provided the bacteria is even in the area). My shop is well ventilated, I do not require Bordetella vaccines and have never had any dogs get Kennel Cough in my shop. I have shown dogs since 1990 and only had one case of Kennel Cough in my dogs (and he was vaccinated, another reason why I no longer vaccinate for it). In a healthy adult dog, K.C. is pretty self-limiting and more of a nuisance than a serious condition.

The AKC Gazette has a great article on vaccines in the Dec. issue. At the end it recommends this site for information: aahanet.org and click "Resources" and look for "2006 AAHA Canine Vaccine Guidelines Revised".

[Erks]

http://www.avma.org/issues/vaccination/default.asp

The current recommendation is for annual lepto vaccination for "at risk" dogs. You need to read up on leptospirosis,determine the prevalence in your area, and decide whether your pets are "at risk". I would skip the KC vaccine...worst case, your dog gets kennel cough and you have to deal with coughing, hacking, and vomiting for several days. Where I live, the rabies vaccine is required every 3 years unless there are extenuating circumstances then you may be able to get a rabies titer.
Do your research, talk to your vet, and make an informed decision.

These are not my recommendations for every pet, some dogs can handle vaccinations with no ill effects, others may have some facial swelling, and then there are the rare ones that have full-blown anaphylactic reactions. Each animal is different and the vaccine protocol should be tailored to the individual pet.

[Kubota]

Thank you all so much for your responses.
I've been reading this board for a couple of years now and very rarely post.
I knew that I would get some very educate/knowledgeable information from you guys.
What really pisses me off is that the person who went to university for years, and who I should be able to trust to guide me in these decisions, is also paying for that education by playing russian roulette with my dogs lives.
I will definitely be having a good discussion with her on Friday, before any needles are poked anywhere.
I just have to remember to be tactful (which can be difficult for me on some days) since she does send me about 90% of my clients. You know what they say, "small town, can't dance". :{

[DBT]

Believe the science. Most vets ignore the science for economic reasons.

The 3 year protocol has been accepted since 2002 and your vet chooses to ignore this.

The 3 year protocol is based on a loosening of historical precedent and is not scientifically backed in any way.

7 year studies have shown immunity 7 years after vaccination.

"Boosters" do not enhance immunity - read up on memory cells and their function in immunity.

Purdue studies have shown that puppies develop auto antibodies that attack their own tissues after vaccination.

Kennel cough and lepto are worthless vaccines because they do not determine which of many strains a dog may potentially be exposed to.

Lepto and rabies vaccines carry with t hem the highest risk of severe reactions.

Most of the diseases that dogs are vaccinated against are either very rare, or diseases that affects young puppies with immature immune systems.

Vacine labels state that they should only be given to healthy dogs. Your dog should receive a vaccine waiver based on it's history.

"The science has been done." It is up to us to study the facts since the veterinary community is unreliable when it comes to over vaccination issues.

Ask yourself if the risk outweighs the benefit. Do the scientific facts support re vaccination?

Hope this helps.

Hair Hair! thats pretty much what i was going to say ..........

[PoodlePal]

. . . only had 1 vaccine administered at a time to a dog. I then wait 2 to 4 weeks before the next, if a "next" is called for.

It really irritates me that vets don't spread out vaccines. Never again will I ever give multiple vaccines at one time. Definitely spread them out as 4 Sibes does.

[neanea]

Some of the best information available comes from Dr. Jean Dodds, who for the last couple of decades has been doing the research to develop the 3 year protocol the vets are now using.

Here's her latest recommendations and an email contact for her if you've got questions.

http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/DODDS-CHG-VACC-PROTOCOLS.HTM

She's a pioneer in this science and you would be getting the most current information without the $$$ factor looming over your head.

You can also tell your vet what you WILL do and not just accept what they say THEY will do. You have a say in your pets care and if you are informed about the choices available, they can't talk over your head. Remember, you have a choice! Dont' accept their word for it, but you'll have to understand the process and risk's.

[shepherdmom]

a very personal decision

as to whether or not to vaccinate yearly. Many years ago I was a "good" vet client. I took my pets in for their yearly vaccinations on time and they got everything the vet recommended. A breeder friend turned me on to titering as a way to check on my dog's need for vaccines and I have been doing it ever since, probably a good 20 years. When I started out I was breeding German Shepherds so had multiple dogs of different ages done yearly. I only had one dog come back as needing a booster of parvo, nothing else. What I do now is to vaccinate my new pup with core vaccines ( no lepto ) between 6-8 weeks, titer around 12 weeks to make sure the vaccines took, retiter at a year to make sure immunity is still strong and then at 3 -5 year intervals. I show my dogs in obedience and rally so they are exposed to other dogs in close settings and have never had a problem. I do realize that this protocol is not for everyone, but it works for me.