Those poor dogs...

[alina1686]

So I have an idea, that might actually help the situation. I know most of you watched "pedigree dogs exposed" and I was really saddened that this type of thing goes on. Watching that show was horrible and infuriating. So I came up with something that could put an end to inbreeding & breeding dogs proven to have genetic defects.

Since there are so many of us on this website, we all have access to many other groomers and of course, the animal loving customers we all deal with.

So if we could form a group and get a petition going to ban the showing of pedigree dogs with genetic diseases, it may discourage people from breeding them. If the banning of showing them didn't put a stop to it, I'm sure with the amount of signatures we could get, they could even make a law to stop it.

Like they said on BBC, it's not okay anywhere in the world for humans to reproduce within their families, why should it be okay for dogs?

So my feeling on this is that I personally could get over 200 signatures from my customer. If I talk to vets & groomers in my area, I could get so much more. IF everyone else here does the same thing, we could have more signatures than we would know what to do with.

What are your guys thoughts on this??? Do you think it's possible?

[gr8danlvr1]

I agree, as I think all breeders should health test their dog anyway. The only problem that this wouldn't solve is things that crop up later in life. There are a great number of hereditary illnesses that wouldn't show up, even on a test, until well after the dog was finished and bred, many times if it is a male. I do think it is a good start though.

[alina1686]

)

Thanks, I do think that with the field we are in we have access to hundreds and thousands of animal lovers. Most of them would agree with this, and if we can show the AKC and all the other kennel clubs & even our state & federal governments how strongly people feel about this, we can at least try to make a difference...

[SwissNChow]

Educate your customers. If you think about the dogs you groom and the source each dog came from, how many actually came from breeders who do health testing and screen for temperament? They don't have to come from a "show" breeder, but they sure should should come from a breeder that is testing the health of the parents and breeding dogs with good temperaments. Educate your clients so they don't just get their next dog anywhere. Help them find good reputable breeders when they are looking for their next dog. When the customer base dries up, breeders will change what they breed. But until they start having difficulty selling their puppies, bad breeders are not going to change their ways.

Education is the way you have to approach this. Banning, and trying to make written rules for what can and cannot be done are never going to solve the problems. Every single dog has some form of "genetic" disease. Sometimes it is as simple as a kink in the tail or an eye that is blue instead of brown or a coat color that is blue instead of black. Then of course you have your life affecting issues from diabeties to allergies to epilepsy and everything in between.

Education has made this country spay/neuter most dogs and cats, and education is what will improve breeding and the quality of dogs produced. When people quit supporting the breeder that is just producing puppies to sell with no consideration to what they are producing, breeders will step up and improve their practices or they will stop breeding altogether. But until they have no market, things are not likely to change.

The sector of breeders who actually do things well cannot keep up with the demand for quality puppies. This demand drives the prices of well bred puppies up and still supply is limited and profit is extremely limited as well. It is far from cheap to be breeding dogs the right way. Then you have sticker shock when the dog buying public realizes that it may cost $1K or more to get a well bred puppy from a quality focused breeder. But, I can get one of the same breed for only $200 if I go to this other breeder. They are both equally cute, the right color and gender, so many are drawn to the cheaper puppy. They don't realize the reasons to fork over the larger purchase price or determine that they can't afford it, and the cheaper puppy from the breeder who doesn't know (or doesn't care) gets sold.

Very few groomers have a clientelle of dogs that only come from quality breeders. If groomers helped their clients learn and understand, then a groomer can really make a difference.

[dogspaw]

Educate your customers. ,,,make a difference.

Very well said.

[Petekids]

From a breeder....long

"Education is the way you have to approach this. Banning, and trying to make written rules for what can and cannot be done are never going to solve the problems. Every single dog has some form of "genetic" disease. Sometimes it is as simple as a kink in the tail or an eye that is blue instead of brown or a coat color that is blue instead of black. Then of course you have your life affecting issues from diabeties to allergies to epilepsy and everything in between."

How true. But PLEASE don't compare dogs to people!! You are playing into the hands of the AR people - who believe that people shouldn't own animals...period. What will that do to our business?? Just because people don't usually "line-breed" doesn't mean dogs shouldn't. There is a definite reason in many cases for doing this. I'm not advocating sister/brother and parent breeding - but grandather to grandaugther, uncle to niece can give a responsible breeder some very good ideas on the direction their breeding program should go. The good, as well as the bad, show up. Years ago I bred a dog to her great uncle. That dog's puppies lived to be 16+ years.

How many of you are breeders? And for how many years? Have you shown dogs, have you done pedigree research, have you done all the health testing needed in your breed? Responsible ethical breeders are few and far between - and again, correctly, people aren't willing to spend the up-front money for a well-bred dog. They won't spend over $500 for a quality well-bred pup, but are willing to spend $5000 to try and correct a genetic problem.
If people would have to spend more for purchasing a dog, they usually (not always) willing to take better care of it.

I've talked until I'm blue in the face to customers and even family members - they still go out and get pups from a irresponsible back yard breeder or puppy mill - and have the vet bills to show for it. I've just about given up. I'll still try, but it certainly doesn't do much good. I've been a breeder since 1983 - have bred about 70 dogs in that time - always trying to better the breed. Of those dogs over 20 are AKC champions and/or have multiple performance titles. I haven't had a call for a puppy in months!! I've never made a cent on breeding my dogs - it always costs more to breed and show them then I get for selling puppies - because of health testing. Of course, I only sell by word of mouth. If one of my dogs ends up with genetic problem (so far just a kinked tail, incorrect dentition in the same dog, or minor thyroid issues), they aren't bred, they are neutered or spayed and hopefully placed in a good home. The ones I can't place live here for the rest of their lives. And I always take dogs back, for whatever reason, at any age.

Any input on this?

[Maltese_mama]

You can't legislate morality!

I think your heart is in the right place but you need to educate yourself on genetic disorders in dogs and also on linebreeding/inbreeding. For starters those two things kind of go against eachother. If you remove every single dog who has or might carry a genetic disease from the breeding pool, you're left w/ very few dogs and inbreeding/linebreeding becomes neccesary. On another note, there are many diseases that don't have tests or don't have reliable tests. Addisons, epilespy and bloat can't be tested for. The test for Sebaceous Adenitis isn't 100% reliable. The reason we have the test that are availble is b/c of responsible breeders and breed clubs who fund research.

I agree that education, not legislation, is the key and that people are going to give in to instant gratification. I'm waiting 4-10 months for my new pup and will be paying well over $1000 for her. How many people do you know who are willing to do that? Most of the people I know want a puppy the very weekend they decide they want another dog and they could care less about the source. Still others get a puppy b/c they saw it at the petshop, website or roadside stand and it was cute. They never bother to think about whether they need a dog at all right now, if this is the right breed for them and where the dog came from.

[D'tails]

I agree with Swiss n Chow.

Instead of campaigning to take away the rights of ALL breeders. Why not educate puppy buyers on how to choose a reputable breeder?

[windywaycavaliers]

I agree with your intentions. And I admire your drive to actually DO something to try to make these changes. However, there is no way to actually prove or even foresee the disqualifying characteristics for this "law" to be put into place--to put it simply. Genetic and inherit diseases pop up so randomly at times....there's so much we could talk about here....and let's not forget that the larger problem lies with dogs that are bred and never step a foot in the show ring. Or never step foot in a Vet's office....
That's about all I will say, I really DO agree with your feelings, but in the dog world, and in the dog breeding world, there are far too many variables to try to get a governing arm around. It would take a mammoth effort, and if people could actually get it done, I would agree,,,but it would be a daunting task, and one of limited effects overall.

[windywaycavaliers]

Swiss N Chow-- you are one of my favorite posters. Very, VERY Well said.

[furrybestjob]

I agree with Swiss n Chow.

Instead of campaigning to take away the rights of ALL breeders. Why not educate puppy buyers on how to choose a reputable breeder?

I think many of us can speak form experience. We're doomed. For most people who are not involved with dogs in a capacity such as ours, what we say often goes in one ear and out the other ear. My words have come upon deaf ears many times in the past, but I still don't give up and keep trying to educate.

[odette]

i try to educate my clients, explain until i am blue in the face,only to have come back from the flea with a(pick breed) that is obviously flawed. my own dogs cost a pretty penny to purchase, yet almost no vet bills. i do not breed, just try to show, but i study what lines produce what drives, I had one small victory today a girl i know actually did research and bought a dog from an old time breeder that takes back his dogs and temperment health tests the dogs! YEA

[Yorkie_Gal]

that show was so very sad..............
I try and try to educate my customers, and they still keep popping up with poorly bred or over bred pups. I paid a pretty penny for my yorkies, don't regret a penny I paid, but almost felt guilty for buying pedigreed dogs after watching that show. It's disheartening that the greed and drive of mankind would put these poor souls through some of this stuff...........

[alina1686]

Well pretty much what I am trying to say is that all these dogs are being born with genetic defects & are suffering needlessly...I don't know, for me it's not enough to educate your customers, because they can't stop bad breeders...and those poor dogs are still being born & suffering. I just wish there was something more we could do...

[Arrooh]

It is sad

and like any TV I'm sure they worked to find the worst most dramatic cases. They did not share about the 3,000 beautiful Purebred dogs at the 125 AKC anniversary show where so many dogs gaited and gleamed with good health and nice enough temperament to all pass by each other in isles pleasantly and happily.

Linebreeding done very carefully can set a type on a breed. If there are faults in the heredity they will likely show up more. I do agree that if a short nose is wanted all people want is more and then too short of a nose is produced. This is mostly the breeders fault but some fault lies with the Judges that reward such extremes. Still I'm not believing you can outlaw that without outlawing creative talented breeding. Can you outlaw Pit Fighting and have no more Pit fighting? I'm currently scared of any dog/pet restriction laws for I do feel the main goal is to stop pets.

I like this quote:

"One of the greatest delusions of the world is the HOPE that the EVILS of this world are to be CURED BY LEGISLATION." Thomas B. Reed 1886