I Didn't Know This Could Happen To Cockers

[Jenneversage64]

A client today told me a friend of hers with a show Cockers had a dog whos' stomach turned adn found iot dead the next morning. The reason was the stomach had twisted. I thought that was just in bigger dogs. Could it happen to any breed of dog? Even small terrier breeds, min poodles etc?

[lucyloo2]

I'm not sure if it can happen with smaller breeds or not, but I know it can happen with horses too. We lost a horse to this when I was a kid

[Jenneversage64]

I have the tv on to pedigrees the secrets

it is very shocking and sad that breeders are ruining their breeds. The dogs that are culled due to not hsving a ridge on ridgebacks etc. GSD who have back legs that are wobbly right in the show ring. I had NO idea it was soooo bad and so sad.

creating defective dogs that suffer with seizures and awful things for looks. This is so wrong.

[gr8danlvr1]

I believe it can happen in any breed, just the larger deeper chested breeds are more prone to it. It is called bloat w/ torsion and if not found quick enough it is a killer. In fact the number one killer of danes.

[stewiedog]

I am pretty sure it can happen to any breed. I personally know of 5 dogs I was close to that died from GV (Iam pretty sure thats right) I showed Borzoi, 1 of my friends loaded her dogs to go to a lure coursing meet 3.5 hours away. Dogs were fine when she put them in the crates in her van. When she got to the coursing meet her beloved "Falcon" was in distress by the time she got him to the closest vet from the coursing grounds he was unable to be saved. Anotgher was when I went to a show with a friend that had a Belgian Shepherd. We were in Utah at the motel after the show. We fed the dogs, waited to walk them. About a half hour after coming back from walking/pottying them her dog was having trouble. It took us a little bit to find a vet at that time (it was like 6 or 7 p.m. on a sat.) also we didn't really know where things were from us since we weren't from there. We got him to a vet in time (he happened to show terv's and knew her dogs breeder small world) he said if we knew how to "pass a tube" he would have done better. She did everything to save him, and that dog was NEVER the same. He was a total wreck after that neurotic, a complete spaz. This was a dog needing only a few singles to finish, and already had his C.D. he was fine before that happened.
I also knew of a Chinese Crested that died from it. The other 2 were an Akita, and a Weim.
Since the CC was able to torsian I don't see why a Cocker wouldn't

[NCGroom]

I had a sweet little cocker/golden mix pet who was about 25-30 lbs. (looked like a tiny little golden) who was only about two years old. She had been running at the park and then she ate and drank too quickly after that much exercise. Her stomach flipped and she died under my bed that night. I felt awful because I didn't recognize the symptoms to look for in gastric torsion. Now I do. It can happen to any dog, trust me!

[Particentral]

it is very shocking and sad that breeders are ruining their breeds. The dogs that are culled due to not hsving a ridge on ridgebacks etc. GSD who have back legs that are wobbly right in the show ring. I had NO idea it was soooo bad and so sad.

creating defective dogs that suffer with seizures and awful things for looks. This is so wrong.

That program was SKEWED into making you think all breeders are doing thsoe things....DO NOT BELIEVE everything you see on TV

[mylady]

it is more common in larger dogs but any breed can suffer from it. My aunt had a Shih Tzu that it happened to but they were able to save her with surgery.

[zoolady]

That program was SKEWED into making you think all breeders are doing thsoe things....DO NOT BELIEVE everything you see on TV

I watched the program mentioned and I do agree somewhat with what you are saying, however there are breeders that are very responsible in how they are breeding. I think that the point they were trying to make is that there are some breeders that are breeding relatives too close and because of that they are creating defective animals, which they are. Inbreeding results in horrible defects that may not show up immediately. That is one of the biggest problems with the puppy farms you read and hear about. I personally believe that if you are not a professional responsible breeder that does hours and hours of research into another animals breeding then you should not be breeding any animals. Too many people are breeding animals willy nilly without doing any research just to make some money, and I believe in this economy it will happen more, resulting in more dogs etc being in shelters when people cannot afford to keep that oh so cute puppy they overpaid for months ago. It is a vicious circle that only gets worse. If you are going to buy a purebred, then make sure that you do your research before buying and see if you truly want to get into what may be involved with whatever you decide to buy.

[D'tails]

Bloat and torsion is caused by feeding a processed grain based diet to carnivores. It changes the health and tone of the digestive tract, and causes dogs to drink profuse amounts of water. They also produce a lot of gas as the body attempts to break down grains, carbs, fillers, etc.

Canines and horses in the wild do not have this problem because of a natural diet.

I realize that the BBC is playing a sensationalized one-sided docu-drama right now, but lets not go off the-deep end here believing everything you see on tv and demonizing all breeders.

[Poodlestar]

hate to break it to you

but most of the breeds we love started out as ONE succesful litter, and the littemates being bred to one another. And when the whole litter is healthy, then there's no problem with it. If a litter is born with lots of issues, and then they inbreed, then we have disasterous results.

dogs like cavaliers who have a serious genetic defect pretty much can't be fixed at this point. they all have the same problem, some just carry the problem and aren't effected. Some breeders are creating more problems, and some are fixing it.

The problem is the breed standards need to be changed, so people stop trying to create these mutated monsters. If the breed standard for ridgebacks allowed both dogs with ridges and dogs without... people wouldn't be so anal about it.

As far as the original post.... YES all breeds can bloat and torsion... it's just more common in deep chested breeds. You can get the stomach stitched to the inner wall cavity, which prevents the flipping. I did that to my standard boy, cause he has gassy issues.

[SwissNChow]

Too many people are breeding animals willy nilly without doing any research just to make some money, and I believe in this economy it will happen more, resulting in more dogs etc being in shelters when people cannot afford to keep that oh so cute puppy they overpaid for months ago. It is a vicious circle that only gets worse.

While I agree there are still too many people breeding animals without appropriate education about what they are doing, statistics simply do not support your claim that the problem is getting worse. It actually is the opposite. Educational programs about spay/neuter have greatly impacted the unwanted dog situation and the problem is getting better. WAY better. According to stats from the Tufts Center for Animals, in 1973, the US population of animals was 65 million and that year there were 13 million killed in shelters for a whopping 20% of the animal population. Educational programs started around that time and in 1982 the US had a dog/cat population of 91 million with 10 million killed in shelters. Way too many, but only 11%, down 9% in less than a decade. In 1990, the dog/cat population grew to 110 million and an estimated 5 million were killed in shelters. A drastic improvement with only 4.5% killed. The latest HSUS statistics indicate a dog/cat population of 163 million with 3-4 million killed in shelters. Assuming the higher number, that is only 2.4% killed, and less than 2% if we assume the lower.

While I agree that 3-4 million dogs and cats killed in shelters is way too many, the problem is getting better. Lots better. Do we still have people getting dogs when they shouldn't, getting them from bad sources, getting dogs that are not suitable for their lifestyle, and not taking the responsibility seriously? Yes, sadly we do, and the pets suffer because of it. But, the problem is actually getting better.

[gr8danlvr1]

Bloat and torsion is caused by feeding a processed grain based diet to carnivores. It changes the health and tone of the digestive tract, and causes dogs to drink profuse amounts of water. They also produce a lot of gas as the body attempts to break down grains, carbs, fillers, etc.

Canines and horses in the wild do not have this problem because of a natural diet.

I realize that the BBC is playing a sensationalized one-sided docu-drama right now, but lets not go off the-deep end here believing everything you see on tv and demonizing all breeders.

While I completely agree w/ a raw fed diet, I think your reasoning is flawed. How do you know that it doesn't/hasn't happened in the wild? Do you follow these animals around day after day and year after year, doing a necropsy on all who die? The reality is that if/when it does happen in the wild, no one is there to witness it. The animal who died fathers/mothers far less offspring, which in turn puts less of their genetic propensity to bloat into the genetic pool. No grains, elevated bowl, non elevated bowl, I think you will find any of those groups will still have had bloat, it is an inherited issue, not a food one.

[Particentral]

The economy has affected breeding as well in that many breeders, show and pet, are reducing the numbers they produce because they cannot sell the puppies as easily. I know three who put off breeding a litter because they were afraid they would not be able to sell the puppies and another who has a litter of maltese, 2 left, CH sire, CH dam and cannot give away the two boys. She is keeping them, showing them and HOEFULLY will be able to finish them then sell them as breeders to someone else, but otherwise, she has two NICE boys, health cleared 10 month old puppies. She has put on hold a litter of CH sired CH dam yorkies. Won't breed for a year.

Cocker breeder I know here, that does things wellas far as health testing and such, even if not the way I would do them (her dogs are not socialized and pee incessantly and are afraid of everything if she keeps them past 8 weeks) has half (4) of a litter of puppies right now. She has dropped her price from $800 to $400 and still has them. They are 4 months old. No one in the show world wants them because of who her dogs came from and the mess that it caused, and pet people aren;t buying. Sad thing is she is breeding another female soon. I turned her down on wanting to use Kermit to stud. NO WAY I want to have to deal with puppies she cannot sell.

[Groomerchick]

GDV

What you're referring to is called GDV (Gastric Dialation Volvulus). The dialation is obviously when the stomach (the actual stomach itself) bloats, and is quite common in all dogs. Most will retch (keep in mind horses cannot vomit-so they're one elimination process short to begin with) or belch to eliminate the excess gas, and go on their merry way. It's common in puppies, dogs who wolf down their food, or those that drink a LOT of water (usually after eating). As far as genetics go, I believe it's only if there's a close relationship (first degree). It's also one reason why parents always warn not to swim right after you eat. Your stomach can bloat, then you're holding your breath while you go under water so you don't relieve the bloating... then you cramp up.

Volvulus is when the stomach flips/rolls over. We've all seen the sketches of stomachs that show the large pouch, with a small tube-like structure at the top and bottom. When the stomach flips, it cuts off those two structures (much like kinking a water hose). Nothing can pass through them, so the air is trapped inside the stomach. Through the process of digestion and such, the stomach becomes distended (bloat) with no way for release. OR the stomach becomes distended (and extremely uncomfortable--causing them to roll on their backs and whatnot), and then the torsion occurs. To my knowledge, no one really knows which comes first, or if there is only one path it follows.

After the two obvious issues, you also have to deal with the decresed blood flow/hypotension, toxemia, depressed resp. issues, etc.

Just thought I'd throw out my two cents on this condition. It's serious, but if treated quickly, it can be corrected. Since all dogs vomit and burp, ALL have the ability to suffer from GDV, and I heard once that the most commonly afflicted (after your larger, deep chested dogs) are Dachshunds and Pekes, but I don't know if that's true or not. Also, I think there are studies out now saying that dogs fed from a raised bowl are at higher risk. But, my info on that is years old.