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  • Tearless shampoo not tearless???

    Hey all! (this is long, I'm sorry)

    I've been bathing for ten years, grooming for eight, and can honestly say that in that amount of time with all the customers I've done, I've NEVER gotten shampoo in the eyes. I've taken precautions though, and wash every dog's face in a tearless and rinse the eyes with water after in the bath just in case. I use south barks blueberry facial on all my personal dogs up til now, but I just moved to a new shop and, while we are waiting for orders to come in, am using Bobbi Panter's baby tearless shampoo on faces. (I really, really don't like it, for sudsing/cleaning reasons as well as others, but it's just interim)

    On Saturday I was doing one of my standard poodle regulars and she started winking at me. I flushed the eye with an eyewash and she was fine. I breathed a sigh of relief because her mom has followed me all over kingdom come for 7 years and I couldn't bear the thought of anything happening to her. I was a little confused as to how it got irritated in the first place though...but today, I was doing a first time bath and quick butt trim on a long haired Chihuahua. I noticed before the bath his right eye had excess staining and watering, and checked it, but it seemed fine. His owner mentioned he had allergies and has some prescribed eye drops at home for when he gets really itchy. I bathed him very carefully and double rinsed the eye gently to try and irrigate all the stuff out. Again, tearless all over the head. He was winking a little before he left and I pointed it out to mom to keep an eye on it, thinking it was his allergies because he's prone to it and had a previous problem. I checked it again before he left and it seemed a little red, but so did his right eye, so I thought it was normal for him. Owner took it in stride and wasn't worried.

    Later on his mom calls saying his eye is now completely shut, he won't open it, it's blood red, and he's whimpering. She said she was in contact with her vet (He was closed so they were doing a consult over the phone) and he wants to know if I might have scratched it or what shampoo I used. (very thankful he didn't just blame me outright) I told her everything I could think of to help and told her to keep in touch.

    I'm really worried! Ten years, no problems, and WHAM, two dogs in as many days. Is that shampoo not tearless? Am I doing something wrong? I keep going over it in my head and I'm hoping I didn't hurt the poor baby...Am I missing something?
    There are 3 different kinds of people in this world: Dog people, cat people, and rational people who don't have a problem liking two things at the same time.

  • #2
    Maybe you accidently didn't dilute the shampoo enough, or maybe you are using water that is to hot/warm since it is colder outside.

    I don't know just trying to help. Just because we do the same thing (diluting shampoo) everyday, doesn't mean we aren't human and accidently don't mix a bottle right.

    It could have been the HV when you dried him, since the poodle seemed ok. Even on low, and with the difusser/nozzle off it can cause eye issues.

    He could have even gotten a hair blown in his eye, and rubbed/scratched irritated it.

    Just stick with the owner, and vet. If it did happen in your care take care of it and remember, we are human ACCIDENTS HAPPEN.
    If you sweat the small stuff, all you have is small soggy stuff.....

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    • #3
      ......

      I don't know...2 dogs within a few days of each other is odd. If you have never experienced this problem before maybe it is the shampoo they are using or they are not diluting it properly like mentioned above....

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      • #4
        Originally posted by OntheBRINKofDisaster View Post
        I noticed before the bath his right eye had excess staining and watering, and checked it, but it seemed fine. His owner mentioned he had allergies and has some prescribed eye drops at home for when he gets really itchy. I bathed him very carefully and double rinsed the eye gently to try and irrigate all the stuff out.
        You are missing that he had an exisiting issue before he got into your tub and bathing it just brought it to the surface.
        <a href="http://www.groomwise.typepad.com/grooming_smarter" target="_blank">My Blog</a> The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why. –Mark Twain

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        • #5
          Personally, I've seen too many dogs with varitable fur balls in their eyes to believe the a hair or two in a dog's eye is going to cause any issues. So I pretty much doubt it could have been a hair in the dog's eyes.

          Now, it's important to remember that just because a shampoo is tearless we shouldn't assume that the odd animal won't react to it. Just like hypoallergenic shampoos can still cause allergic reactions in some animals (and people) tearless shampoo can irritate some dog's eyes.

          Rather than use plain water to rinse eyes, it would be better to use contact lense wetting solution or sterile saline. Plain water can leave the eyes feeling gummy and dry, which can lead to rubbing and scratching them.

          And, as previously mentioned, a dryer can also cause irritation and itching.

          The solution is quite simple. Put mineral oil drops in the dog's eyes before shampooing.

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          • #6
            Could just be coincidence and the 2nd dog has definitely already had issues. Sounds like perhaps the chi's existing eye problems could've been exacerbated by a little shampoo in the eyes.

            Helly's right about the mineral drops- not sure that it's a total guarantee against problems; but I've been using it without fail for 7 years and never a problem.
            The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under whose shade you do not expect to sit. ~Nelson Henderson

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            • #7
              Thanks all. I'll try diluting it more, I'm not getting it from a gallon, I'm getting it from a bottle. Of course, the bottle does not mention dilution ratios, so I'm kind of doing my best guestimation.

              Oh, this was something else I was going to ask but refrained because my original was so long-every time I've-or someone I've known or worked with-used mineral oil, it's gotten the face completely greasy! So I stopped using it because I never had problems anyway and customers complained. My boss ordered some drops that are vetrinary grade that form an ophthalmic (Please excuse my spelling, I'm late and typing this at warp speed) film. Better or worse than mineral oil? Don't know what brand yet, it's still on the way. Let you all know as soon as it comes.
              There are 3 different kinds of people in this world: Dog people, cat people, and rational people who don't have a problem liking two things at the same time.

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              • #8
                I been using Espree tearless facial shampoo with no problems BUT I decided to see if it was tearless and would irritate my eyes as I got my own bath soap in my eyes and it burned like crazy.
                I put a WEE bit in the corner of my eye and YES it did irritate and make my eye turn red, it didn't go away for 1/2hr. OUCH, no wonder dogs rub their eyes ....
                Why would a shampoo say on the bottle it is TEARLESS then it still burns???
                It doesn't burn as bad as regular shampoo but it still burns!!!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by OntheBRINKofDisaster View Post
                  -every time I've-or someone I've known or worked with-used mineral oil, it's gotten the face completely greasy! So I stopped using it because I never had problems anyway and customers complained.
                  People say this a lot and I'm always a bit flabbergasted to hear it. I NEVER get it on the face! And how it can get the face "completely greasy" I can't fathom.

                  Is a small bottle that produces a drop at a time being used?

                  I tilt the head back a bit, gently stretch the eye top & bottom to open it a little more, apply one drop (two for giant eyeballs) wait a second and release. No part of the drop should be coming out on the face.
                  The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under whose shade you do not expect to sit. ~Nelson Henderson

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                  • #10
                    I, too, had the mineral oil greasy face thing going on whenever I tried it; back in the days of dipping I had to use it.
                    with the recirc system I have never had a problem with shampoo in the eyes causing irritation; knock on wood.
                    Deidre

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                    • #11
                      Plexi, you just affirmed what I've been saying all along. Even so-called tearless shampoos can irritate the eyes in sensitive animals. It can also damage corneas, especially if the dog in question has dry eye. That's why I always use mineral oil in the eyes.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by OntheBRINKofDisaster View Post
                        .

                        ...every time I've-or someone I've known or worked with-used mineral oil, it's gotten the face completely greasy! So I stopped using it because I never had problems anyway and customers complained. My boss ordered some drops that are vetrinary grade that form an ophthalmic (Please excuse my spelling, I'm late and typing this at warp speed) film. Better or worse than mineral oil? Don't know what brand yet, it's still on the way. Let you all know as soon as it comes.
                        I've heard people say this, and it baffles me. I have never had that problem, and the only thing I can assume is that you're using too much. You only need one small drop in each eye.

                        As for the drops your boss ordered, without knowing the name it's difficult to say if it would be better than mineral oil, from the standpoint of knowing if it will leave the face oily.

                        And by the way, you spelled ophthalmic correctly, LOL.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by OntheBRINKofDisaster View Post
                          Hey all! (this is long, I'm sorry)

                          I noticed before the bath his right eye had excess staining and watering, and checked it, but it seemed fine. His owner mentioned he had allergies and has some prescribed eye drops at home for when he gets really itchy.?
                          I agree with Party that his eye was already irritated and by bathing and you probably just irritated it further.
                          I also know from my personal experience getting shampoo in eyes that whyle tearless shampoo doesn't cause "tearing" it stings a lot! So it is irritating. Also washing eyes out with plain water (not eyewash) can be irritating to the eye. My eyes itch and sting if I get water in them.

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                          • #14
                            Brink, the stuff I use is called Safe Eye and I get it from Pet Edge (I think- a bottle lasts forever and I can't remember for sure.)
                            The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under whose shade you do not expect to sit. ~Nelson Henderson

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                            • #15
                              We use mineral oil too. Never had a problem with a greasy face (actually there was one little monster who was squirming all over the place that got a little around the eyes). I just use a bottle that has a little dropper on it.
                              Scratch a dog and you'll find a permanent job. ~Franklin P. Jones

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