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  • seizures & heart murmurs

    I work for a corp that has just recently decided that we are not allowed to take dogs who have ever had a seizure or have ever been diagnosed with a heart murmur. I realize they are doing this for the usual corporate nonsense, but it made me wonder what actual groomers (or medical people) think of this.

    Do you guys worry about grooming dogs with either of those conditions? I know that heart murmurs (in people at least) can mean almost anything, or nothing. I assume the same thing is true for seizures. If a dog is medicated for seizures, or had one once at 2 years old but never since and is now 9, is it really a grooming (or stress) risk? I imagine the best thing to do would be to talk to the dog's vet, but of course we've been told that it doesn't matter what the vet says; we have to turn those dogs away no matter what, including dogs we've been grooming for years

    I'm mainly asking because I'm curious and because, before going into grooming, I was in a profession that cared about facts & evidence. It's hard to let go of it. Thank you for any information!

    Melissa

  • #2
    It depends on the grade of the heart murmur and what's triggered the seizure.

    My Boston Terrier had a grade 1.5 heart murmur and basically meant that it was there but it wasn't going to do him any harm. He was bathed and dried on a 3 or 4 week basis depending on how busy I was. On the other hand I did a dog with a grade 5 murmur and he was on heart meds and in chronic heart failure. He had to be groomed with out a bath, first thing in the morning on his own to keep his stress to the minimum. (heart murmurs in the uk are graded 0-5 in severity, 0 being non exsistant, 5being the worst that you can hear with out putting a stethoscope to the dogs chest)

    As for seizures, they can be trigger by literally anything, they can be a one off due to a high temp or poisoning I which case the dog is very unlikely to seize again, or they can be a regular thing that needs medicating like epilepsy.

    I dont worry about either condition but I do take extra care when the owners inform me. It is some thing I ask over the phone when booking so i can book the dog in at a sutible time and I always check that the dog has had its meds and what they want me to do should the pet have an episode.

    I have found most owners won't even mention a heart murmur unless it's a really bad one, and even then, it won't get mentioned unless prompted by asking does your pet have any heart conditions.
    ​​​

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    • #3
      I take them. I know how to deal.with it. If you do not have the training then no. You shouldn't be taking them.
      <a href="http://www.groomwise.typepad.com/grooming_smarter" target="_blank">My Blog</a> The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why. –Mark Twain

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      • #4
        My own dog has been diagnosed with stage 3 of a heart murmur and on medications and checkups with the vet every 3 months. He has no problem of having CHF or no difficulty with grooming. Besides lots of my clients have been diagnosed with it of any stages so no way I can refuse to groom them. I have a shih tzu client that has had episodes of having a seizure at home and almost every time in the tub now. She will be gone for 10 seconds and then coming back like nothing happens. Lol

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        • #5
          Heart murmur pets.
          No overheating the dog.
          Anything that stresses them you MUST STOP.
          No cage drying unattended.
          Heat is not the only issue, LITERALLY anything that stresses like our bad breath, seriously. you have to stop.
          Stress is the killer as it triggers the heart problem.
          So this is truly a special care pet.
          And be sure to have the customer sign a hold harmless.
          Don't let them out of your sight, mobile might be perfect for them.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TootsiePie View Post
            Heart murmur pets.
            No overheating the dog.
            Anything that stresses them you MUST STOP.
            No cage drying unattended.
            Heat is not the only issue, LITERALLY anything that stresses like our bad breath, seriously. you have to stop.
            Stress is the killer as it triggers the heart problem.
            So this is truly a special care pet.
            And be sure to have the customer sign a hold harmless.
            Don't let them out of your sight, mobile might be perfect for them.

            Comment


            • #7
              Wow this takes me back to this message board late Nineties. We posted some of the first awards of $$$ by courts to pet grooming customers. The largest of the time was $50,000 for a Schnauzer that died in a cage dryer. No he was not cooked to death, OMG hate that thought and saying that. Be he didn't. He actually did die in a cage dryer from what? HEART MURMUR. BIG HUGE LESSON. They had groomed the dogs for years. But recently before the regular groom a heart murmur was diagnosed. The customer did not tell the groomer, and the dog died in moments in a cage dryer. Judge ruled AGAINST the groomer. HE WHO TAKES THE MONEY IS RESPONSIBLE TO ASK IF THERE ARE ANY CHANGES IN HEALTH SINCE LAST APPOINTMENT.

              Last week I got my teeth cleaned. Every 3 months I do. EVERY VISIT BEFORE the cleaning starts the hygienist asks me has there been any changes in your health, diagnoses by medical means, or any prescriptions anew? SAME THING, I share again 20 some years later groomers are responsible to ask every pet owner, every visit if there have been changes in their pet's health or any medications. This was the supreme test of that in the pet care world. Groomer had to pay $50,000 to the pet owner, even though the pet owner forgot to advise groomer. Take money makes you the pro, and you must ask.

              Frustrating yes. Back in my mothers book From Problems to Profits look at the customer service forms. They notified people all the way in the Sixties to notify us of any charges, and LOL if you worked on my mothers' front desk, you had a list of questions to ask every owner every visit, even it it was yesterday's last groom.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Stephen View Post
                Wow this takes me back to this message board late Nineties. We posted some of the first awards of $$$ by courts to pet grooming customers. The largest of the time was $50,000 for a Schnauzer that died in a cage dryer. No he was not cooked to death, OMG hate that thought and saying that. Be he didn't. He actually did die in a cage dryer from what? HEART MURMUR. BIG HUGE LESSON. They had groomed the dogs for years. But recently before the regular groom a heart murmur was diagnosed. The customer did not tell the groomer, and the dog died in moments in a cage dryer. Judge ruled AGAINST the groomer. HE WHO TAKES THE MONEY IS RESPONSIBLE TO ASK IF THERE ARE ANY CHANGES IN HEALTH SINCE LAST APPOINTMENT.

                Last week I got my teeth cleaned. Every 3 months I do. EVERY VISIT BEFORE the cleaning starts the hygienist asks me has there been any changes in your health, diagnoses by medical means, or any prescriptions anew? SAME THING, I share again 20 some years later groomers are responsible to ask every pet owner, every visit if there have been changes in their pet's health or any medications. This was the supreme test of that in the pet care world. Groomer had to pay $50,000 to the pet owner, even though the pet owner forgot to advise groomer. Take money makes you the pro, and you must ask.

                Frustrating yes. Back in my mothers book From Problems to Profits look at the customer service forms. They notified people all the way in the Sixties to notify us of any charges, and LOL if you worked on my mothers' front desk, you had a list of questions to ask every owner every visit, even it it was yesterday's last groom.
                There are groomers starting to require a release and hold harmless form that has to be done for every appointment just for that reason.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mlphilli View Post
                  I work for a corp that has just recently decided that we are not allowed to take dogs who have ever had a seizure or have ever been diagnosed with a heart murmur. I realize they are doing this for the usual corporate nonsense, but it made me wonder what actual groomers (or medical people) think of this.

                  Do you guys worry about grooming dogs with either of those conditions? I know that heart murmurs (in people at least) can mean almost anything, or nothing. I assume the same thing is true for seizures. If a dog is medicated for seizures, or had one once at 2 years old but never since and is now 9, is it really a grooming (or stress) risk? I imagine the best thing to do would be to talk to the dog's vet, but of course we've been told that it doesn't matter what the vet says; we have to turn those dogs away no matter what, including dogs we've been grooming for years

                  I'm mainly asking because I'm curious and because, before going into grooming, I was in a profession that cared about facts & evidence. It's hard to let go of it. Thank you for any information!

                  Melissa
                  Dogs with heart murmurs at our place must have written vet clearance.

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                  • #10
                    Absolutely vet clearance IN WRITING.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Couldn't agree more. My dental cleaning the first thing before they touch me open my mouth is any changes in your health, drugs. They do that not for fun but not getting sued. How many groomers do that? Religiously. I know I do. Dumb is as dumb does. Take a hint if you are in business for yourself, some people will treat an accident you didn't mean as if you did when they talk with an attorney. I know a groomer that lost her business because she didn't ask if the dog has been treated for teeth issues and the dog got sick from tooth **** loosened by the groomer.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        We changed our scipt for intake reading this board years ago. My front desk person MUST ask and check off a couple questions like is your pet taking any medications, and are there any other changes in health since your last visit.

                        You would be surprised that 5% of the time we get big YES. He has cancer, he had a bad leg, he has a seizure. OMG

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                        • #13
                          100% vet clearance if we hear of it. Today I get a lot more written instructions. Some people love it that I am so demanding.

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