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  • corisa66
    replied
    Well, I am gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that what we see as a lack of blending could be a trick of light. I have looked and looked at this pic and it sort of reminds me of what happens in our salon when a westie comes in. Our room is very very long, like 6 tables. the lighting in the room is a bit odd, bright lights over tables but sort of shadowy between. From time to time when a thin coated westie comes in and gets done a few tables away from you and the groomer asks when she is done..ok..how is this? you can look up and say..uhhhh..how bout...some blending? Because the dog looks like you have taken your clippers and ran it sideways around your dog. the groomer in question will always..and I am talking different girls here...look at her dog and say what do you mean? When you walk right up to the dog it is obviously blended but when you walk away it looks like these pics when the dog is standing right uner a bright light and you are like 15 feet away. I know our staff and all the westies are blended pretty well and carded and some of them just dont look it under the lights. this is particularly truthful of thin coated dogs with dark skin. When they come up we make a point to make notes in thier files to try to convince the owners to leave the backs a bit longer due to the thinness of thier coat showing them off like that.

    Just another side to a coin.

    Leave a comment:


  • liiikesunshinee
    replied
    Originally posted by SpikeyTheYorkie View Post
    Well, first off, how is a #4f backward NOT "shaved"? LOL, a #4F backward is a #7f with the grain. I don't go any shorter than a #7f, and to me, that is pretty darned short.
    ..
    I did a 4f WITH the grain.

    Leave a comment:


  • BeeJL
    replied
    Originally posted by SpikeyTheYorkie View Post
    To avoid having to do cuts like that, I say, "So, you DON'T want a Westie cut?" That throws 'em, lol.

    Tammy in Utah
    I'm going to remember that line!

    Leave a comment:


  • sheilabgroomer
    replied
    I have a couple of Westies w/"monster" coats as well and it can be trickey to blend them in and they can be a booger to dry IF they aren't carded well. In addition to using a stripping knife or blade before the bath you can also get a lot of coat out when they are soaped up in the tub. I use a med/fine comb and my recirc and comb down the skirt and legs and my zoom or curry comb on the back.

    If you strip out the coat well you will be amazed at how much easier it is to blend.

    Leave a comment:


  • petgroomaustralia
    replied
    A bit different from Spikey but this is how I do a westie.

    1. Straight to the bath, do not pass go, the stuff added to the shampoo to get the undercoat and knots to blow out with the drying.

    2. Dry

    3. Coat King to remove any leftover undercoat and remove and knots that are still there.

    4. The comb should now go through the entire dog without a snag...VERY IMPORTANT

    5. Clip the ear tips with a 10 blade.

    6. Clip the dog with the Wahl Stainless Steel Dark Purple comb for the body pattern. I do not follow the old fashioned high/hula look, I do them the new way ala the Westminster dog, the clients get used to it and then they like it. It is also less hair to get knotty for next time which is always a good thing for the dog.

    7. Trim the feet and outline.

    8. Trim the head. I generally use the Wahl Stainless Steel Light Blue comb to take down length, chalk the head, then finish with scissors. I dont use any other products on the head, but thats my personal preference.

    Leave a comment:


  • SpikeyTheYorkie
    replied
    Well, first off, how is a #4f backward NOT "shaved"? LOL, a #4F backward is a #7f with the grain. I don't go any shorter than a #7f, and to me, that is pretty darned short.

    If this cut were up to me, it would be like this:

    First: Card the coat out heavily to get all the dead hair and "ick" out.

    Second: Bathe well, super clean doggie.

    Third: Clip with a #4f or #5f at the shortest...and definitely NOT a perfectly straight line.

    To avoid having to do cuts like that, I say, "So, you DON'T want a Westie cut?" That throws 'em, lol.

    Tammy in Utah

    Leave a comment:


  • keyray
    replied
    Just a comment about the show dog's big ol' puffy head. that look is acheived with lots and lots of styling product. A cairn's (my dogs) head isn't quite as big, but I put gel, hairspray and a whole lot of other stuff to get it to to stand up even a little bit.

    So even if you aren't going for the marshmallow look there is still a basic structure to the head. For my pet Westies I don't ever put "stuff" in the hair, so it falls down, but it still has the "Westie" shape to it.

    Oh, but don't get the impression that I am some kind of expert. I'm not. My only qualification is that it's my favorite cut and I've tried to perfect it as much as I can.

    Leave a comment:


  • keyray
    replied
    Originally posted by liiikesunshinee View Post
    no, no. they didnt want the line so distinct.

    and you're right; he did have alot of undercoat, which was the reason I was having such a hard time blending the lines in the first place haha.
    If you use a stripping knife held at a 30 degree angle to the back and pull it through the coat, it will pull out so much undercoat. If you card the back and hips and the whole area where the skirt blends it will make it so much easier to clipper the area. The back of Westies is also a good area to use a skip-tooth blade. It leaves the hair rougher and more natural looking.

    When I am trying to blend from a shorter area to a longer area I don't stop the clippers right at the blending line. I lift the clippers and LIGHTLY skim down the coat. That starts the blending. To finish I use a technique I learned from Jodi Murphy's DVDs. Sue uses her comb to lift the hair vertically out from the body (so you have the hair in your comb that goes from long at the bottom to short at the top). I then use my thinning shears to "erase" the line and to give it a really smooth transition. I think I learned this method in her Cocker DVD, so if you want to see it done you can pick up one of her DVDs.

    I use this method whenever I am going from short to long. Makes it really easy.

    Leave a comment:


  • liiikesunshinee
    replied
    Originally posted by RudyRoo View Post
    Sun, I'm still pretty much a rookie groomer, only been grooming about a yr & 1/2, ,,,. There is nothing beautiful or artsy about being stubborn and rude!
    I never disputed anything! Parti (and everyone else who has replied to this thread!) have taught me something new and I am grateful for that. In fact, I spent quite a bit of time reading Parti's blog earlier and I've been taking in alot of new info thanks to her. If it wasn't for her advice, I would never have known that what I thought was standard was wrong. I've learned about several new blending techniques and gotten a better understanding of the diagrams in my grooming books, and I am excited to try all these things out on Monday and I never once was ungrateful for any of this. I merely commented that people in my area ask for something that is not necessarily AKC standard. And if I don't like the way a dog looks, that's an opinion I'm allowed to have. Don't we allow our customers that same right?! Just because, in my eye, I think a big puffy head on a Westie looks silly doesn't mean I'm rude.

    Thank you so much to everyone who has critiqued Mungo's cut and given me such helpful advice. I will be posting more photos in the future and look forward to hearing more opinions!

    peace.

    Leave a comment:


  • RudyRoo
    replied
    Originally posted by liiikesunshinee View Post
    And that is the beauty of individuality. Grooming is an art form, and just like any other art medium, each hand will wield a unique flair, and each eye will see beauty differently. Its all still art and its all still beautiful.
    Sun, I'm still pretty much a rookie groomer, only been grooming about a yr & 1/2, and still have a long way to go, but some of these folks who have been trying to help you are at the level of master groomer even if they don't have a bunch of letters after their name. For some reason you seem to want to dispute everything they have said and keep talking about art and beauty. A badly groomed dog is not art or beautiful to the trained eye. Try being more open and maybe you can learn something! Nobody on here ever tells someone who posted a pic that their attemp at a groom sucks. They find the postive things, give encourgement and advice to HELP the other person. I normally keep my mouth shut, but you are being rude. There is nothing beautiful or artsy about being stubborn and rude!

    Leave a comment:


  • Particentral
    replied
    Originally posted by liiikesunshinee View Post
    And that is the beauty of individuality. Grooming is an art form, and just like any other art medium, each hand will wield a unique flair, and each eye will see beauty differently. Its all still art and its all still beautiful.
    You are correct to a degree, but we still have patterns that are "standard" for each breed. Techniques that are considered "correct". It is within those confines that most of us create our art and show our flair. I reserve my real artistic nature for mixed breeds and try to keep as close to breed standard as clients will allow me to for pure breds.

    Leave a comment:


  • liiikesunshinee
    replied
    Originally posted by Full_Groom View Post

    I personally like the Westie picture Debi linked, the dog looks very muscular and athletic, and the haircut (or hand stripping) accentuates the dog in beautiful ways. Looks like a little man in a muscle shirt. It IS more exaggerated than the Notes page, but this is also a highly-competitive show dog, and breeders and handlers very much follow grooming trends. THAT is the look people are aiming for these days. Your dog is obviously someone's beloved pet, and if they are happy the way you trimmed it, that is all that really matters. While you may not care for the trendy show-look, those breeders and handlers are some of the best groomers out there, and I highly respect their knowledge and talents.
    And that is the beauty of individuality. Grooming is an art form, and just like any other art medium, each hand will wield a unique flair, and each eye will see beauty differently. Its all still art and its all still beautiful.

    Leave a comment:


  • Full_Groom
    replied
    Originally posted by liiikesunshinee View Post
    Actually, I prefer my 4f blade to my 4 comb. It cuts ALOT better, and it leaves a smoother cut. My attachment combs just catch and pull hair. I've tried everything to make them cut better. But they have been at the vet longer than I have, so I'm thinking perhaps they are just past their prime.

    And just a thought, entirely my own opinion. Maybe the AKC way isn't always the best way. Despite that ugly line, I think Mungo looks hella cuter than that Westminster winner.
    Your Wahl SS 4 comb? That's funny, mine works much better than my #4 blade for trims such as this. But if you hadn't carded the dog, I can see where you are coming from....

    I personally like the Westie picture Debi linked, the dog looks very muscular and athletic, and the haircut (or hand stripping) accentuates the dog in beautiful ways. Looks like a little man in a muscle shirt. It IS more exaggerated than the Notes page, but this is also a highly-competitive show dog, and breeders and handlers very much follow grooming trends. THAT is the look people are aiming for these days. Your dog is obviously someone's beloved pet, and if they are happy the way you trimmed it, that is all that really matters. While you may not care for the trendy show-look, those breeders and handlers are some of the best groomers out there, and I highly respect their knowledge and talents.

    Leave a comment:


  • Particentral
    replied
    Originally posted by liiikesunshinee View Post
    Thats what I was trying to say! I have notes from the grooming table AND the all breed grooming guide, and to me they both seem to show a high skirt.
    The line you are seeing is the blend line.Where you START blending. I give up. Keep doing it the way you want. I will do it the way I was taught by one of the top westie handlers out there. If your clients are happy, that's great! and all that really matters. If you have3 a good set of combs (SS are the way to go for this type of dog) and a good blade, combs work. If you don't, they don't. Also, Westies are supposed to be handstripped and a smooth finish is not desirable. BUT iF that is what your clients want, then go for it. I wouldn't want to mess up a good client/groomer relationship at all.

    Leave a comment:


  • Smart-n-Pretty
    replied
    Originally posted by Particentral View Post
    I have NOTHING to say in that subject. NOTHING.
    One of these days I'ma find out what you mean by that. Right now I remain confused, which is nothing new to me.

    Leave a comment:

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