What would you have done?

[Cyn]

That seemed to go over well.....sure right....I have NEVER seem this called an unfriendly fourm befor. UUummmmm, YOU ask for our opinion, just because YOU did not get the answers YOU wanted to hear, we are unfriendly?
These ladys are both older experanced groomers AND a lot of young just getting started groomers that are just telling you how it is, they.are being helpful! You would do.well to listen to them because we want All groomers to make it.
NO we are not afraid of you taking our customers.

[Admin]

Always a difficult subject, but please let's use the complete words. Online is HANDS ON. Online students have to find pets to groom. Online or home study does not mean they don't touch pets. Schools provide the pets and should have direct supervision. Home study means they have to find the pets and take pictures for review of their distance learning instructors.

So let's not blatantly say there is no hands on to home study. It sure sounds that way to many people who read the board. There is hands on in home study, and in fact, there is NO LIMIT when you think about it. They are assisted in ways to find pets. What they don't have is IMMEDIATE supervision as they groom.

So it is better to criticize for not having immediate supervision than to imply there is no hands on because there is hands on. And yet we have schools that provide little supervision as well, no evaluation, in fact you can sometimes get more evaluation through correspondence than some schools.

It is definitely a briar patch. Please tread lightly on our newcomers no matter what. They will come to understand, takes some patience please. Be cool.

[brittandan]

I do and will take into consideration anything posted on here because I DO want to learn.
Take a look at some of the responses to anyone asking questions about opening a shop when they haven't been a groomer forever. Some are downright nasty. I know how women are so I don't take it personally. It's just a little disheartening to see so many people telling you that you aren't going to be any good if you don't go to a professional school and get years of training first. I feel that this is a job that requires talent not just training and no matter what school you go to you could be good at it or not. I'm not trying to pass myself off as skilled they know I'm learning and that I will put the dog's comfort and safety first.

[Jerseygroom]

I am so sorry you felt unwelcome here. I'm sure that was not the intention of anyone. I think everyone is just looking out for you (liability-wise) and, of course, the dog.

I understand how difficult it can be to get going in this business in certain areas. Can you look for a bather job with a local groomer? That way you can gain hands on experience and still work on dogs at home.

Good luck, I'm sure you will figure out a way to make this work. It is worth it. And consider sticking around here. As a new groomer I can't begin to tell you the wealth of knowledge and great advice I've already gotten from everyone here.

Diane

[Petekids]

I am so sorry you felt unwelcome here. I'm sure that was not the intention of anyone. I think everyone is just looking out for you (liability-wise) and, of course, the dog.

Good luck, I'm sure you will figure out a way to make this work. It is worth it. And consider sticking around here. As a new groomer I can't begin to tell you the wealth of knowledge and great advice I've already gotten from everyone here. Diane

Good advice Diane. When I started grooming professionally almost 7 years ago I knew I didn't know very much about pet grooming. I had been grooming my own show dogs for 20+ years, but that is vastly different than grooming the wide variety (health and type) of dogs that I come across in this business. This board has been a god-send... I was on a different board initially and was "put down" for only being able to groom 5 dogs in an 8 hour day when I had only been grooming 2 months. Because there are so many experienced, long-term career groomers here, one can get a lot of different opinions and wonderful help! Stay and learn Brittandan!

[OntheBRINKofDisaster]

The thing is, most new groomers need a heavy dose of reality. I'm, I don't know, "lucky", I guess? To be plunk in the middle of about 6 diff grooming schools. All advertise you will be ready to open your own biz in 8-12 weeks! Wtf? Can you think of any other profession where that would acceptable? Would you go to a hairdresser who had only been trained for 12 weeks? A mechanic? A plumber? A contractor? Yet, we, who spend our days with live animals and sharp objects think its just peachy? I will never understand that! I have interviewed people who have been full on groomers for 2-3 years who couldn't even properly bathe a dog. Out of all the people ive interviewed out of school, not once have i felt remotely comfortable at starting them as a full fledged groomer. So yes, experience in not only trims but safety and sanitation is absolutely ideal. Thats not sour grapes girlfriend, that's wisdom.

I admire your search for expanding your knowledge base but you have to understand that you are simply green. And pointing that out is not mean or cruel. It's reality! Which is actually the best place to start. I always say the easiest thing about being smart is knowing what you're dumb at. Being honest about areas you need improvement allows you to work on them. I, for one, can't do math. Like, at all. I swear I can actually hear my calculator laughing at me sometimes. But I love English. So I write essays and speeches and classes, but you will never see me respond to a number related question on here lol. So instead of getting defensive, open your eyes and listen. If you stick around there is a LOT to learn.

[HoundLover]

well i dont find the board unfriendly or anything of the such....BUT....what i think most of the groomers that responded to your post were focusing on the age and health of the dog and the amount of experience you have actually hands on.

i know alot of us dont like taking on the elderly dogs due to their age/health issues/temperments etc.
i would suggest perhaps you dont take on elderly dogs until you gain more experience. i understand your in a tough situtation...closest school being 2 hrs away, and no one who actually has a shop wanting to take you on to give you some observince or training of any sort.

and sometimes online or learning by yourself is the only way someone is going to get to learn how to groom....it does take talent to groom a dog...its not all about the techincal parts ie how to hold the clipper properly, set patterns, how to properly scissor the dog.....i know we had one person who worked with us who did HORRID shavedowns..and didnt do very good shih tzus but could turn out a nice pattern dog! (ie schn. westies,cairns,etc)

so it takes talent to be able to do ALL types of dogs out there!

i say stick with it and keep trying but avoid taking on id say any dog over the age of 10 yrs old. just explain to the owners that your not experienced enough with elderly dogs and you wouldnt want something to happen to their pet and you would prefer they go to a groomer who is more experienced in dealing with the elderly guys.

i hope to see you around on the board!
Hound

[FoxysPet]

I think the question was would you have suggestions on the grooming of this well loved dog. Without knowing a persons life story I would be hesitant to give such detailed feedback. It was clear that she was new and doing a home study course. This is all that is available to some of us. Many of us are looking for support in life. I wish you the very best!

[brittandan]

On the recommendation of one of the great people on here that did give me advice. I decided to explain a little further. I did do a thorough check on the dog, eyes alert, coat shiny, ran around playing with my son before the groom. No signs of distress (ie heavy panting, limping etc) Not once during the groom or bath did he try to nip at or get away from me except when I tried to brush out and dry his rear. That is why it did not get done. What I was trying to ask I guess is what to say to the client, and how assertive/cautious do you need to be when trying to get a dog finished. I am unwilling to cause pain so don't worry about that. But I mean when a dog just isn't cooperative. Was there anything else I should be looking for regarding the health of the pet that I'm forgetting? Also any recommendations on books or videos to further learn. I've already gotten sam kohl's all breed dog grooming and have ordered notes from the grooming table (haven't got it yet though).

PS I think I was a little overwhelmed at the responses, I do appreciate any advice and will try not to be so sensitive in future.

[Lucy in the Sky]

Britt, glad you will stick around some more. Us "oldies" have seen a lot over the years and it is scary. I am not miss perfect, I have had moments where I have utterly lost my temper with a dog and realized it's time for everyone to have a break. I have learned over the years as many of us have, you need to use your judgement on how far to push a dog. With experience you would be able to tell if the dog is just being a brat- cause lots of them are for their hind ends- or if as a senior dog it is physically difficult. When I suspect that a dog is having age related pain, I ask the owner to check with their vet about an anti inflammatory that they can administer at home before the grooming appointment. Also, seeing if you can get the dog to lie on its side so you can do one rear leg at a time is good too.
If the dog is being a brat, tools like a groomers helper and with permission from the owner, some peanut butter on the grooming arm might help. Also, have the owner stay and feed the dog small morsels of high value treats- it will keep the dog's stress level down and yours too. There are lots of options, but you may need to explore several before you find the right one.
As professional groomers on this board, the atrocities that happen due to people being inexperienced and arrogant enough to think they know it all sometimes puts us in panic mode when we hear still learning and old dog in the same post.
Stick around and keep learning because it is obvious you don't fall into that category and I am sure we all look forward to helping you grow and seeing sets of before and afters as your experience level grows!

[klsypt]

Britt, I think it was wise of you to call the groom. What I like to do with older dogs is ask a million bajillion questions about the pets general health. While I do this I feel the WHOLE dog over for bumps and sensitive issues. I watch the dogs reaction to everything. I ask how have they responded to grooming in the past.
Maybe the dog was sore, tired, had to poo, has arthritis, bad hips, bad knees, full anals, spinal injury, lymes disease, dementia. The possibilities are tremendous. Sometimes cockers are quirky and may decide they don't like something. Learn every breed, learn health issues, personalities, sometimes this is a good guide for when to back off. I would also look into first aid.
The good thing is your intuition told you to stop. A good read on an old dog is way more important than a dry butt. But I do agree fatty tumors are one thing but a cancer diagnosis would require an ok from his vet before I started.

[4Sibes]

The only thing I would have done differently than you...is I would have tried to get the pooch back in, in about 48 hours, not a week. Reason being,...it would have given him enough time to recuperate, but I wouldn't have to rebathe. A Cocker, a week later, I'd be rebathing, and that adds to the exhaustion on old, feeble, dogs.

[CutiePiesBySarah]

I had a student who had done an online course. I didnt know what to think about this kind of education, but knew if she got hands on, she could become a fantastic groomer. Her gigantic binder was impressive, lots of theory, something I never had. I coached her through a few grooms, before she found a fulltime job at a great salon that does show grooming, and has a good reputation. I was very happy for her. The online course worked well for her....but her practical was just as important for her certificate and had to be supervised by a professional. Her online course cost her a fraction of the price of tuition, and she got a full time job before even graduating. I was lucky to get my foot in the door by walking in off the street, but everyone's gotta start somewhere and online education can do it for you. Having said that, I was nervous starting my own business after 7 years of experience. You gotta get a feel for the industry by working in salons. Its a must...i have taken valuable lessons in business from every salon I worked at. How to run and how not to run a business.

You did the right thing sending the dog home. Too many times I have wanted to send a senior dog home. The minute you're uncomfortable its better to not do than do....that way, no harm done and you save your butt.

[Dancingsaxes]

Well said Brink.

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk

[HoundLover]

just wanted to add my two cents in again...that the dog had PREVIOUSLY had cancer not that it had cancer right then. (i was the one who encouraged her to post a backstory about the dog as well....so we all know now that it was NOT a feeble old 15 yr old dog...but a rather healthy energetic one!)

heck dogs get funny about stupid things! some will bite your hands off for nails but sit like an angel for ears! some will fight to the death about ears but wont make a peep when youve accidently lopped too much off the nail and its bleeding like a stuck pig! dogs (and humans) are funny particular creatures LOL! we either like or dont like something done to us....and the same goes for animals! heck i know cali my calico kitty....does NOT like being held on her back. whatsoever. she will literally claw the **** out of you to flip herself back over....however you can carry her around with you all day if you wanted to! shes a pretty easygoing kitty!

however i think when we go to respond to a post....we should ask for a back story to the OP instead of jumping to conclusions...and i think britt did the right thing in sending the dog home with the owners.....something that at a prior shop i worked at should have been done with an older dog...and perhaps the groomer wouldnt have gotten seriously bitten in the hand as well as recklessly not heeded warning signs that the dog was in pain....

JMHO
Hound