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  1. #25
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Maryland
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    2,310

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    SSW I'm glad you can see that it really isn't the "normal" to use a 10 on the backs of cockers or schns. Even doing an all over clipdown with a 10 isn't the normal. Unless of course, you have a seriously severe matted dog. In those cases that may be required.

    One of my biggest gripes when I hired a groomer, whether they were trained at a school or worked for someone else for training. When i tried to show them a new technique or a different style, it was always "I wasn't taught that way". Just because you were "taught a certain way" doesn't neccessary mean it's the correct way.

    Even after all the years I've been grooming and my success in the show ring with my poodles, I'm still learning new and different styles and techniques.

    i worked for 10 yrs by myself, didn't change until i found this forum I've picked up so many new things, some I 've tried and have incorperated them into my business grooming pets.

  2. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    11,064

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    Well I have to admit I do SOME dogs (cockers and snzs) with a ten blade. It IS what people want here or else they will go somewhere else. I can get by with a 7F or a short snapon sometimes, but many like a smoother cut. BTW it can be blended, you just have to know HOW to blend it. BUT I will say it is not always the "norm". I also use an 8.5 blade or a 9 blade......soooooo sometimes area DOES demand certain things. I have had clients go elsewhere because I would NOT go short short short....I mean, I got told not long ago that Kermit needed a haircut, BY MY VET! He was floored at the length of his back. I strip it I told him and it stays long, and he was like, Well, doesnt he get hot? I laughed it off, but that IS the style here. However I would not ever say that EVERYONE here does it short because I don't unless told to go really short and my advice is falling on deaf ears.

    Blanket statements like "Everyone here does it" or "No one here uses thinng shears" will get you in trouble everytime.

    Another thing. I had a girl one time that was academy trained as well. Her anser to everything was "That's not the way they did it at the academy".... I told her to forget everything she learned and never say that to me again. She sad it again the next day about a cocker of all things....she didnt last long. Open your m ind and accept that they way you were taught may be incorrect or that things may have changed since you learned. That is the on ly way you will progress as a stylist.
    My Blog The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why. –Mark Twain

  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverStarWing View Post
    Im surprised no one else useds a #10. For cocker cuts thats all we use out here. Its what the corps taught us (10 years ago) and what my manager from Illinois did (who was never corp trained). I figured this was a norm. I see it is not.
    Yes, corps teach it that way, I learned to use a #10 on the backs of anything that got a pattern except for some of my terriers at the corp school I went to. (and I've also done a lot of #10 shave downs on dogs that weren't matted.) I have no idea why they do it, a beginner would have a much easier time blending if they use a longer blade such as a #7, which is what I use now for the most part. Like Particentral, where I live people are worried about their dogs being hot, so if you leave the coat too long they complain. I've never gotten a complaint from using a #7 on a patterned dog though. And I would usually tell the customer that I'd changed something about the dog's groom. Something like "I tried something new today, I left the coat on fluffy's back just a smidge longer to make it look more natural and blend better. Let me know how you like it!" No one has ever had a problem with it. (so far. )

  4. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada, United States
    Posts
    1,191

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Ellie View Post
    SSW I'm glad you can see that it really isn't the "normal" to use a 10 on the backs of cockers or schns. Even doing an all over clipdown with a 10 isn't the normal. Unless of course, you have a seriously severe matted dog. In those cases that may be required.

    One of my biggest gripes when I hired a groomer, whether they were trained at a school or worked for someone else for training. When i tried to show them a new technique or a different style, it was always "I wasn't taught that way". Just because you were "taught a certain way" doesn't neccessary mean it's the correct way.

    Even after all the years I've been grooming and my success in the show ring with my poodles, I'm still learning new and different styles and techniques.

    i worked for 10 yrs by myself, didn't change until i found this forum I've picked up so many new things, some I 've tried and have incorperated them into my business grooming pets.
    Yea, I dont do 10 shave downs either unless matted. Cockers and schnauzers that get shaves get #7's unless requested by owner to go longer or shorter. I have 3 cockers that I do in a 10 all over, by owner request. No schnauzers in a 10 all over.

  5. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    2,649

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    I have used a #10 on a cocker back and been able to blend it well. I blend it into a #7, then blend that #7 into the skirt with a #3guard comb. Voila. I don't like using the #10 on blond cockers though, it seems to track worse. I then follow this up w/ the furminator (or whatever carding tool you prefer). I work corp, was taught through their academy and was NOT taught to use a #10 on every patterned dog.
    I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free.
    -Michelangelo

  6. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    414

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    Thanks for everyone's thoughts. I will take another look at the ears next time and try to drop that line. I did skim the skirt with a 0 guard and I did like that look. Next month I'll take updated pictures if I can to share.

  7. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    414

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    Well she came back in today. The owner's changed her haircut again-now they wanted me to take down her legs so she wouldn't be hot when they go to Florida this month. I sire was bummed to cut those legs I've been growing out. So I took an 0 down her skirt and legs this time and scissored them tight. OF course today she decided to be a booger instead of her normal sweet self but here's the finished product.

    http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/...leyflorida.jpg

  8. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Charleston, WV
    Posts
    294

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    I typically do what the owner wants. What most people want on the cockers in my area is for their to be a noticeable difference in length between the pattern and the furnishings and to be able to easily see the pattern. Which means they usually want a 9 or a 10 on the pattern itself and it straight back (no blending) which no is not to the breed profile but that's what they want and what they like. So what I've found that works and makes them happy is to set the pattern about an inch give or take below the anus by going straight back all the way around (not on the chest as that would cut the dog). Most of my clients also don't like any hair on the top of the head either (they want it smooth) and they also don't like belveled feet either they want the legs done in straight down and just rounded off Now if the dog has skin problems, would mark up to much or has lots of wurts and such I will not go lower than a 7F (preferably a 5F).

    My personal dog however is groomed the way I want him, which is a 7F blended cocker clip, with a nice pretty head and belveled feet Keep in mind that I was hand stipping him but didn't like it on him and am still learning how to do it as well and with a 5F it was way to long for my taste. The 7F on him still to me looks natural and gives me the look I want.

  9. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2,421

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    Quote Originally Posted by MagikAshes View Post
    I typically do what the owner wants. What most people want on the cockers in my area is for their to be a noticeable difference in length between the pattern and the furnishings and to be able to easily see the pattern. Which means they usually want a 9 or a 10 on the pattern itself and it straight back (no blending) which no is not to the breed profile but that's what they want and what they like. So what I've found that works and makes them happy is to set the pattern about an inch give or take below the anus by going straight back all the way around (not on the chest as that would cut the dog). Most of my clients also don't like any hair on the top of the head either (they want it smooth) and they also don't like belveled feet either they want the legs done in straight down and just rounded off Now if the dog has skin problems, would mark up to much or has lots of wurts and such I will not go lower than a 7F (preferably a 5F).

    My personal dog however is groomed the way I want him, which is a 7F blended cocker clip, with a nice pretty head and belveled feet Keep in mind that I was hand stipping him but didn't like it on him and am still learning how to do it as well and with a 5F it was way to long for my taste. The 7F on him still to me looks natural and gives me the look I want.
    you have the most unusually specific clients ive ever heard of. its rare that a customer even notices things like bevelled feet vs pet feet... and unblended pattern lines are a strange request. ive had old ladies request that with terriers, but i'd say that 90% of EVERY client ive worked with in the last 7 years met my enthusiastic request to make Buffy look like a show dog with an emphatic "OKAY!". Granted, i tend to listen to customer reqyests, read between the lines, and do what i think looks best anyway... very few people care either way, and everyone wants their dog to look well-groomed... its my job to show them what constitutes "well-groomed!"

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

  10. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Charleston, WV
    Posts
    294

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    FunkyPuppy:

    They don't literally state it as I put it on the post. I was being specific on the post to explain what they want as it would mean to us as I am talking to other groomers. They don't know what belveled feet are but they will tell me stuff like...I don't want the nails showing at all, I want the legs full and all the same length, I don't want the feet short like a poodle (yes, there is a big difference but to them their isn't). As for the pattern they will say they want it to the skin, or really short, I want to be able to see the difference and stuff like that. And they want the line to be completely even all the way around because they are sure if it's not a straight line then I'm doing it wrong (rolling my eyes). With that in mind I had a cocker come in a few years back that asked me to make it look like a cocker (has never been groomed before) and wanted a real cocker spaniel clip just like a show dog. So I did the show lines, the blending and so on like it should be and did her with a 7f because they wanted short but not really short. I got a call not long after she picked her up with the owner screaming at me and telling me that my lines are not even, they are not straight, places are higher than others and that I don't know what I am doing and that I'm an idiot. It didn't matter how much I explained why what I did was right, nothing I said mattered. She was right and I ruined her dog. (once again rolling my eyes...lol)

    Now yes I've had some that will let me make the dog look like it actually should but typically I get people have a photo in their mind and won't let me change it.

  11. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2,421

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    Quote Originally Posted by MagikAshes View Post
    FunkyPuppy:

    They don't literally state it as I put it on the post. I was being specific on the post to explain what they want as it would mean to us as I am talking to other groomers. They don't know what belveled feet are but they will tell me stuff like...I don't want the nails showing at all, I want the legs full and all the same length, I don't want the feet short like a poodle (yes, there is a big difference but to them their isn't). As for the pattern they will say they want it to the skin, or really short, I want to be able to see the difference and stuff like that. And they want the line to be completely even all the way around because they are sure if it's not a straight line then I'm doing it wrong (rolling my eyes). With that in mind I had a cocker come in a few years back that asked me to make it look like a cocker (has never been groomed before) and wanted a real cocker spaniel clip just like a show dog. So I did the show lines, the blending and so on like it should be and did her with a 7f because they wanted short but not really short. I got a call not long after she picked her up with the owner screaming at me and telling me that my lines are not even, they are not straight, places are higher than others and that I don't know what I am doing and that I'm an idiot. It didn't matter how much I explained why what I did was right, nothing I said mattered. She was right and I ruined her dog. (once again rolling my eyes...lol)

    Now yes I've had some that will let me make the dog look like it actually should but typically I get people have a photo in their mind and won't let me change it.
    well, shame on you for ruining a perfectly good dog! rumor has it if you give a dog a "bad" haircut, all of her puppies will be born with that bad haircut! and if you put a cocker pattern on a schnauzer she'll have schnocker puppies!

    its true, i heard it on Fox News.

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

  12. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    101

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverStarWing View Post
    Im surprised no one else useds a #10. For cocker cuts thats all we use out here. Its what the corps taught us (10 years ago) and what my manager from Illinois did (who was never corp trained). I figured this was a norm. I see it is not.
    I have always used a #10 on Schnauzers. That is how everyone in the Palm Springs area likes them. I don't groom in Palm Springs anymore, but every groomer I know grooms schnauzers the same way. For Cockers I never go shorter than a 7F

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