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  1. #1
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    Jul 2010
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    Alberta, Canada
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    Default Why a dull stripping knife?

    I know you want dull for plucking so that you don't cut the hair, but what about carding? I have used the same knife for years, it works great to card out bostons, labs after all other tools can't get any hair out. I hold flat going with grain

  2. #2
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    Jul 2010
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    Alberta, Canada
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    Default

    Doesn't anyone know?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Westminster, Maryland
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    380

    Default

    I have that same type of knife and I do use it for carding also.I worked for a Scottish lady back in the mid 80's and she would make us dull new stripping knives on a piece of brick(or a really grungy cocker )so they would work to her expectations. She claimed new sharp stripping knives cut coat and were more likely to irritate the skin.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin, United States
    Posts
    7,260

    Default

    of course I know!! *giggling*
    You dull that knife so that it PULLS out coat and does NOT cut it, same goes for your undercoat rakes or Coat Kings!!!
    Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
    www.ChrisSertzel.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Saint Pete Beach, Florida, United States
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    1,034

    Default

    Now I've got to know - how does one dull a coat king?

    I've never dulled a stripping tool, but have never found myself cutting hair either. For carding, if it is kept FLAT it doesn't cut (at least for me.) If one applies the correct pressure and has the technique fitted for their own hand it doesn't cut either. If you twist/yank, turn - yes it can cut.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Alberta, Canada
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    Default

    So why do they come sharp? And why can you buy replacement teeth for the coat king type rakes? Here I thought maybe I should replace my stuff, when it is just getting broken in!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    11,028

    Default

    I have no idea why they sell replacements for them unless it is because you can have them rust sometimes. OH, and some people use them for dematting which would need a sharp tool not a dull one. I n ever use mine that way. As for how to dull them....when I first got them I used them on every dirty dog that I could. LOL If it had sand in it it got the coat king run through it. CHows, aussies, standard poodles (I have some WOOLY st poos). It took a couple of months to get them dull and then someone STOLE the pouch that had all of them in it and I had to start over.....I have three now and they are as dull as they can be. I use them all the time on carding and cockers and even my own westie and broken coated jack.....
    My Blog The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why. –Mark Twain

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    180

    Default

    A way I heard to dull 'em out is to put the knife or CK in a little baggy with some ear powder for a day or two. Dunno how true that is; I've owned mine for a few years and they're long dull.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin, United States
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    7,260

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by arlaede View Post
    Now I've got to know - how does one dull a coat king?

    I've never dulled a stripping tool, but have never found myself cutting hair either. For carding, if it is kept FLAT it doesn't cut (at least for me.) If one applies the correct pressure and has the technique fitted for their own hand it doesn't cut either. If you twist/yank, turn - yes it can cut.
    You've been lucky so far then. It certainly is all about technique, and working thru a coat is an art, but it also takes the correct tools to really get the job done the right way. When I card with them I also hold them flat, but on any upturn or cowlick in coat, those teeth will cut the hair fed into them at an angle when their factory edge is intact. Its sheer mechanics and not just personal opinion.
    For a coat rake, I take a Dremel with a fine grit head and pull that over each hook from one side & then the other and straight across the tips of each hook. For a knife, I'll do the same thing with a burnishing tip, and pull a the coarse toothed ones across the pavement to remove the tips. Groomers used baggies of sand mixed with styptic powder or just straight styptic for dulling for years, but now, with some knife models and some different types of styptic on the market, depending on the blade material, the handle material or the handle rivets or hardware, it can cause pitting. So use styptic to dull now carefully.
    Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
    www.ChrisSertzel.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin, United States
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    7,260

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ItzaClip! View Post
    So why do they come sharp? And why can you buy replacement teeth for the coat king type rakes? Here I thought maybe I should replace my stuff, when it is just getting broken in!
    Knives come sharp from the factory because manufacturers forge them as a single piece that comes with a standard edge on each tooth. In terms of mass production, this edge maintains the integrity of the tooth strength for overall longevity. Remember also that there are many models and teeth type of knives, so each knife would also need its own machine for dulling, or be dulled by hand- that would be difficult again in terms of mass production. Many of them are also treated with a chemical bath to lengthen shelf life so that they are more protected from pitting and rust in terms of their storage before they are bought- by taking the edge off of the teeth and then applying that sealant, this would change the edge of the tooth again, and if the treatment was applied and then the teeth were factory dulled, it would defeat the purpose of sealing the metal as it would be removed across the teeth.
    The more important reason: if you ask a sharpener to dull your knives for you, you will find that a good one will tell you that it is best done by you as depending on how you use your knives and how you individually work thru a coat will mean that trying them and using them until you get them where they best suit you can be trial & error.
    For coat rakes, I have seen the replacement teeth, for them- and for the coat "dematting tools". I think that those are sold for people who do use them to actively dematt and cut out coat. They work for that job, but in my own opinion, one grown over years of working with grooming, I would NOT use a dematting knife to dematt a dog. They cause stretching and breakage of hair when they are pulled forcibly thru coat to cut out a matt. All that does is leave damaged hair in the coat to grow out and matt back up again because it is damaged: dry, brittle and weak. Dematting, IMO, should be done by hand-either clipped off & started over, or the (clean) matt separated from the surrounding coat, a detangler or coat spray applied to help increase elasticity, and extra care taken with combing it out, or using thinners to loosen up what can't be combed without causing breakage.
    Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
    www.ChrisSertzel.com

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
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    2,404

    Default

    WOW thank you for your answers! i never was taught to dull my stuff, so i have been cutting hair for years untill they got dull i imagine. man i wish one of you lived in canada! i need a lesson....or four...

  12. #12

    Default

    If you learn to hold the knife correctly and pull with your forearm you shouldn't accidentally cut the hair. Hold your fingers on the blade steady and do not twist the hand or the fingers. Before you pull look at where the hair lays against the knife between your thumb and the knife. Careful inspection should allow you to see whether the knife is going to cut the hair. Use the muscles of your forearm to pull straight back and work steadily with the direction the hair lies. Never pull in the same spot more than once or twice. Move steadily from neck to tail or neck to sides. Work always with the direction of hair growth. It helps to imagine that you are swooping your hands along the surface of the coat in a steadily moving motion. When beginning, inspect the hair you have just removed. It will be obvious as to whiter you have cut or pulled. Begin slowly and gradually increase your speed when you are positive your hand and arm now have been trained. this is muscle memory. How long it takes for your fingers, hand, wrist and arm to know the motion and do it automatically is individual, but on average, by working for a few minutes, several times an hour, off and on throughout the day most arms will learn it in a week. The neckline is a very sensitive area so when blending the necklines, ie where the clipped neck on a terrier meets the longer coat (the half moon of hair that moves from the top of the head down the neck to the back) you can use the stripper to both cut and pull by adjusting the tilt of the blade. The trick is to blend carefully from the clipped neck into the longer hair. Terriers are double coated, ie. the Scottish Terrier. To correctly groom them the need both under and top coat. However, many Scotties, especially pet varieties, do not have level top lines. You can trick the eye into seeing a level top line where there is none by allowing the undercoat in low areas to grow longer and raking it out, sometimes entirely, forms the high area. Because you have nurtured the top,hard coat, it is there to lay like a stiff rain coat over the underwear and VOILA, you have a level dog. Your customers will wonder at your magic. :0) If they balk a bit at paying a little higher price, remind them that the coat is much healthier as is the skin, the coat sheds both rain and dirt much much better and the worked under-coat in the armpits and sides does not matt. My show dogs are often out there digging along with everyone else. Cette la Vie. The hard coat and the harder skirt allows me to simply brush the dirt out when it is dry whereas a constantly clipped coat will mat and hold the soil. BTW. It really helps as well to carefully study what a Scotty or other breed is supposed to look like before you start working. I have done it for years and I still keep a very good picture by the grooming table and I work with a mirror behind the dog. HAVE FUN

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