Question abut shaving down labs
I have clients asking for me to shave down labs, goldens. I have been told this is not good for the coat. Is this true that its bad for the coat. Is there a web page I could go and print out something telling the clients that its bad.
Not true...but I'm sure there's a million web pages out there you can find to print out and support that if that's what you want.
Originally Posted by wenndyr
(It's not good for Poodles, Bichons, or Yorkies either.)
The only reasons you would have for improper or long term hair regrowth are medical ones (like hormonal - thyroid, etc, or disease) or timing of the shave down.
For some older dogs, there are hormonal changes that occur by nature, and it may have an effect of hair regrowth, and there is no remedy...so with those dogs, yes, it is a chance you take. It has been my experience that I have not seen a lot of those over the years.
Maybe 2-3 a year, and again...they are older dogs.
...and I have NO idea why I felt it necessary to quote your post in my response, lol!
As a lab owner, lover, and total brown noser, I agree with 4Sibes. While I would not shave my lovely labs down, some people do and the coat grows back just fine. Others aren't so lucky. My husband's friend shaved his most perfect personality and perfect coated lab down and it ruined her coat... but she is 8.
One of my old dogs had surgery last Dec and they must have used a 50 blade, laser hair removal, or electrolysis (okay, maybe I joke about the last two). My dog has horrible, rotten, horrible (repeat) skin problems, so as of today, he looks like he was just shaved from surgery . Not to mention he's lost hair most every where else. He's a mess. But that is him and he had to have surgery.
I think it a **** shoot personally. Then again, I continue to ask, why would you do that with a short haired dog?? Aren't they still going to shed, albeit really short hairs?
Dogs of all breeds get shaved and regrow their hair every day. I don't know of one dog that gets spayed without shaving, and you know, the hair grows back and it's impossible to tell it was ever done.
Do some dogs have issues regrowing hair after being shaved down? Yes, but there is a reason for it. Hair is designed to grow. Now, it is true that hair grows at different rates, and that how fast it grows back will depend upon the hair growth cycle the dog is in, and often you will see the undercoat grow in before the guard coat catches up and some dogs grow their coat back unevenly until it reaches it's natural length. Shaving the dog does change the texture felt until the coat has grown back completely. When the coat does not grow back, there is an underlying medical reason that was not triggered by the haircut, but was instead simply undiagnosed at the time the dog was shaved.
You as the groomer get to decide what you want to do. Some choose not to do shavedowns on double coated breeds, others choose to take the client's money and shave the dog to the client's desires. Of course you can attempt to educate the client in other methods of controlling shedding and managing the dog in the heat, but there are many clients that you will simply never convince, and those clients will simply go elsewhere if you choose not to groom their dog to their specifications. Your choice to keep them as a client or not. I think big double coated dogs can really boost the income when they are steady clients but that once-a-year shavedowns are just not worth the time and wear and tear on your body and your equipment.
lot of misconceptions about shaving down breeds not normally given hair cuts. One I heard and from professionals and only around 20 years ago.. Some trainers would shave down GSD's to demoralize them LOL.. The reason that is funny is because a dog does not go.. Hey... OMG look at my hair.. I look weird..I think I will hide.. I had an owner of a mixed breed swear I did some hoodoo magic on her mutt while grooming the dog.. It acted different.. more likely to play, and happier. I told her as much as I would like to boast myself some magical miracle worker dog whisperer. I had nothing to do with how your dog is acting.. I explained that because she now liked the way her dog looked. The dog mirrored those feelings, causing a positive experience. feelinsg that do not require a hairdoo at all Just like some macho trainer dude laughing at a shaved down GSD or looking at the dog like it is ugly. The dog will act different. Why many professional trainers believed shaving them down changed the personality ..
As for clipper induced alopecia that is something all groomers need to be aware of and what breeds will most commonly subcome to it. regardless if it is a health issue. People with double coated dogs AND CATS that ask for shave downs need to be told about the possibilities. Me being originally from Florida I have shaved down every breed with the exception of very few rare breeds.. I have seen clipper induced alopecia on a sheltie , poms, and a few cats mainly hyms. Did I cause them.. Only one hym the rest were caused by other groomers.. which in that area shaving with a 10 is very common.. I never like to go below a 7f. 10 on demand only.
for the goldens, you dont have to shave them down you can use a 3 blade on the body and legs and it looks really cute. Its still nice and short so the owners think the dog will be able to stay cool in the summer lol. I call it the golden puppy clip cause it makes older goldens look liek puppies again!
also not cutting it too short and using a 3blade instead will prevent sunburn
At this time of the year I shave SO many Goldens. At grooming school it was drummed into our heads NOT to shave them but to be honest they are not my dogs and they spend so much of the summer at cottages and in the lakes. the majority of them are actually my regular Golden clients which are every 8 weeks through out the year, I go short or shorter in summer then leave their coats to grow through the cold winter months and so far all of their coats have regrown back the same as before. I do have one client that has a golden with a beautiful coat that has never been shaved and she is considering it, I have given her all the info and opinions about it so she can make an informed decision at her next appointment. Not all of them are done on a #7 I've been shaving a lot on a #2/blue clip on and that gives a really nice finish. the head and tail blends really well with it and it doesn't look like a "Golden shave down" but more of a young lab/golden and it hides the lumps and bumps of the old dogs.
the reason why people shave short coated breeds?, so far I do a couple, one is a doodle that grew up looking like a large terrier but it is for allergies. The owners are not so reactive to their pet when they are shaved....apparently
I shave one lab. Only one. He's the only double coat dog I do shave and he's like...20 years old, and the owner just wants him to be smooth...
I have talked all of my double coat dog owners out of shaving their dogs. Especially the Golden's. It seems that the undercoat grows faster than the topcoat in some dogs and when the hair grows back in its fluffy stuff, and then takes a long time for the top coat to get nice again. I just strip and do a deshed, and the dog is beautiful without being bald. Maybe it's just me, but I always feel that the next time a dog comes in after being shaved, his coat is scuzzy feeling, dull, cottony and just yucky. I mean, if you shave a terrier down over and over, his coat gets soft. But, if you start stripping the dog and keeping it in proper coat he has nice hard coat..like he was bred to have. I always talk people into liking the dog they have, and not trying to mutilate them...
I don't feel it's necessary especially when the reason for shaving is always to stop the shedding.....um, getting rid of the undercoat and getting regular grooms stops shedding a lot better than shaving your dog, and he'll look so much better for it too. But alas, personal preference. I guess I'd rather that my walking advertisement looks like the dog that he is, with a proper coat with great color and texture instead of some fat, rat-looking monster lolling down the sidewalk. It's amazing how much happier people seem when they pick up their dog and it looks great, not just bald, and then the get compliments on how nice he looks from the neighbors and all....
I'm rambling a lot....maybe time for bed.
Originally Posted by Diana Meier
Random definitions of the word "mutilate";
1. Inflict a violent and disfiguring injury on
2. To inflict serious damage on
3. To deprive of a limb or an essential part; cripple
Yes, it's good that you discourage your clients from mutilating their dogs.
Interesting that in roughly 2000 short clips I've done on the nontraditional breeds over the years, only 1, a GSD, was to help with the shedding. Bad allergies with a child in the family and they were determined not to have to rehome their pet.
No one else has ever mentioned shedding and these dogs all basically continue to shed in typical fashion the 8 months out of the year they are not clipped down short.
I live and work in a rural area, and we are constantly getting calls about shaving down labs, pugs, etc. to "help" with the shedding. While we will do what the owner wants, as long as it's safe for the pet, we do try and get them to understand that shaving will just make the shedding hair shorter. Some actually listen and opt for our de shedding program, but others insist that it will help and we do their bidding. It's funny that no matter which of us are doing the shaving, you constantly hear, "I'm sorry honey" over and over during the shave. LOL
If we're getting into definitions, Merriam-Webster gives this definition:
Originally Posted by 4Sibes
Definition of MUTILATE
1: to cut up or alter radically so as to make imperfect <the child mutilated the book with his scissors>
Therefore, I would consider clipping a Golden in a 10 from nose to tail a mutilation.
All in all, I don't feel it necessary to shave a coat that the dog has been specifically bred to have. If you look at the dogs in question, their proper coat has a function. A Lab's coat repels dirt, repels water, keeps the sun off their skin, etc. Shaving that is going against what we worked so hard to achieve. When I said I wanted people to like their dog for who they are, I meant that I want to remind them that they got the dog for a reason, usually looks, temperament, *breed standard was appealing*. Not always the case, but if you spent $900 on that lab, why the heck are you shaving it? I personally don't think it keeps them cooler, it removes the air buffer between air and skin, just like a bird. Would you pluck the feathers off a duck to make him cooler? No. His feathers are part of his temperature regulation.
Now, that all being said, I will take a comb and skim off furnishings to keep a dog from matting, or to smooth out a coat to minimize burrs. But shaving? I don't do it. I don't think it is necessary by any means, and I tell people so. They listen to me, and it's never been a fight with the owner. Now bring in a lab blowing coat and looking a hot mess, and ask to shave it. I;ll tell you what I'll do: a de-shed package, maybe some stripping, and if you don't like it, or think your dog is overheating, you bring it back and I'll shave it. I have yet to get a call from a client saying they hate what I've done. Usually quite the opposite. They call in 2 months and want the same thing because it did the job.
I'm sorry, but this is a topic that irritates me, and I know we all have our opinions and ways, so please, no offense! I just feel that shaving a dog to cool it won't do much if you leave all that partially blown coat in and then allow the undercoat to grow in faster and thicker in the next few months. My opinion.
Also, Almostheaven, I agree with you, great, lets shave the shedding hair so when it does shed it has a pointed end which will imbed itself into your skin oh so much easier!