Question: Anal glands expressed in Yorkies

**Jenneversage64** · 11-04-09, 02:30 PM

My client has two Yorkies and one is a puppy, the other the mother. Her Banfield vet told her they need glands expressed every groom and four a year covered by her vet insurance. I do not agree. There was a tme when I never heard of expressing them and I bet zilions of dogs lived and died without the procedure until the 80s when vets decided we needed to do it. If you begin doesn't it weaken the muscles that do it? I rather think God made dogs with self expressing glands. Am I wrong? Those lil' butts could get ruptured or abcessed. Vet said they will explode if not done often and told her to find a different groomer! The nerve! I can do them, I will, but prefer NOT to due to my beliefs. My 2 yr old dogs are fine never had it done. Westies the other is five and never had done either.WWYD? Or what would you do?

**mrscornbread** · 11-04-09, 02:54 PM

With my indoor dogs I do express their anals mainly bc I dont want them expressing them themselves on my floor or furniture but my outside dogs have never needed it since they do their own.

**lexapurple** · 11-04-09, 03:25 PM

Well, there is a posibility of anal glands rapturing if they overfill. Most healthy dogs on good diet have no problem emptying them themselves when they poop. If dog doesn't show signs of discomfort in the area let them be! Have you done anal glands on those dogs before? Did the vet find a real issue during visit? I think if their insurance is anything like human, the vet just wants to claim money from it.

Routine expresion can weaken muscles and create dependancy.

We are pet stylists, not proctologists! If she agrees with her vet on the matter, ask her to let the vet take care of it. Anal glands can be expressed fully only if done internally. And only vets or vet techs should be doing it! They can recognise and prescribe treatment if there are problems with anal glands when they do expressions.
Don't be bothered by the vets words! Don't we tell our clients "find a different vet" if we disagree with diagnosis and treatment prescribed?

**pooh13** · 11-04-09, 03:26 PM

if that vet thinks the glands should be expressed with every grooming then they should be doing it.I'm sorry but it drives me crazy when vets attempt to dictate our jobs.I have groomed in vets clinics in the past it was optional to the client but too many of those pets I was told by the vet not to express them due to underlined issues of these dogs.as groomers we are not trained nor qualified to know by texture coloration etc ,signs to know if there is an issue .we could be doing more harm than good with many of these pets.I will express glands only upon request by the client. as for that particular clinic I am not impressed by them what so ever.

**Poodleluv** · 11-04-09, 03:56 PM

This is another grey area that might be cleared up by a groomers assocation. As far as I know the best idea for my area is to do them "on request only" I also tell clients we will do the glands if they are easy,and not painful,hot.or swollen,and that the only way to be 100%sure both sacs are empty is internal expression. Some vets tell clients to have us do them,others don't think we should. I lost a scnauzer client,who semed to think I was a vet. I told her several times ,that she should have the vet do her dogs bottom,as he would start scooting within a week or so of me doing them with his groom,and was tired of her stopping in wanting me to squeeze his butt al thetime. He was very touchy back there,and I finally told her "look ,he gets upset enough,over doing them in the tub,and having the warm water to soften and sooth,these drop-ins are getting stressful.nothing is comiong out,please have the vet deal with this,not me! She got mad and never came back. Too Bad. NOT

**Jenneversage64** · 11-04-09, 05:09 PM

for the year for insurance. I no longer feel comfortable or qualified to do any glands even tho' I did them for years wtih no known problems. I hope when the year is up she will go elsewhere for a new vet. She thinks her so-called free teeth cleanings etc is worth the $300. I don't. I won't loose her as we trade and she does a great job on my hair. I see her Friday for my beauty treatment and when my knees are better I will do her two Yorkies. Her clients were interested but not at my price. My hairdresser is not cheap and she doesn't trim my nails, clean my you- know -what, or my ears, or give me a bath!

I am very emotional today and just feel like crying.

**SpikeyTheYorkie** · 11-04-09, 05:36 PM

Aww, don't feel emotional.

Well, I have never heard of any groomer around here being responsible for actually causing the glands to rupture.

Yes, I OCCASIONALLY do Spike's glands. But not always. I just check them and if I feel large bulbs, I will express them. I usually just check them to make sure they're not huge or anything. I guess they get done once a month but they express very very easily, no pressure at all.

Icon (toy poo) usually doesn't need them done, but he did need them done once, they were fairly large, but haven't done them since that one time. Ya know, everybody has an opinion, so if the owner wants them done, I would do them. If they are hard to express, send her to the vet.

I also am not impressed with that particular clinic, btw.

Tammy in Utah

**petloverx** · 11-04-09, 06:55 PM

It's illegal here in Oregon to express ags outside of a vet's office. Even if the Dr says you can, you can't unless you work for him/her.

**KarlaSnyder** · 11-04-09, 07:05 PM

Have a client who has dealt with that particular clinic. She is so not impressed, and neither am I. I rarely do glands anymore, only if very full and easy to express.

**pooh13** · 11-04-09, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by petloverx

It's illegal here in Oregon to express ags outside of a vet's office. Even if the Dr says you can, you can't unless you work for him/her.

it should be that way all around I"m sorry but that is an internal thing we deal with external

**keyray** · 11-04-09, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Poodleluv

This is another grey area that might be cleared up by a groomers assocation.

Doubt it. Even vets don't agree.

I've asked every vet that has been at the clinic I've worked at (maybe 8 or so). They all say that expressing anal glands once a month is not likely to be often enough to cause the muscles of the glands to relax.

I had a dog that developed anal glands issues. They ruptured a couple of different times and I eventually had to have them removed. In all I probably spent $800. So I ALWAYS check the anal glands and I express them in the dogs I groom 80% (or so) of the time. Not so often in bigger dogs. Oddly enough the pack I have now never need them expressed.

**suzy6469** · 11-04-09, 08:06 PM

I went to a dinner hosted by a local vet, and the anal gland question was raised. He said that he is all for groomers expressing anals. He even suggests noting what the discharge looks like and going over what is abnormal. He also pointed out that all dogs no matter what the size have the ability to express their glands when they have a bowel movement however that expressing them will not weaken the muscles around the anus that control that. It was really nice that he hosted something like this. I don't start puppies out unless they present with a problem but I always check the area we put our hands on these dogs every 4-8 weeks and it's more likely we'll catch something earlier than an owner particularly in that region. I was luck and found an anal gland tumor on a clients dog that I hadn't noticed the groom before when they took it to the vet it was cancer but they caught it early enough to save the dog.
Gentle pressure is all that's required I just don't feel it hurts to check and express if needed. Blast me if you want.

**Dawn125** · 11-05-09, 08:14 AM

I have 2 yorkies age 5 and 6. Neither has ever had it's anal glands expressed. I do feel them when bathing and they have never felt swollen. Also the only times I have ever seen either one of them scoot they have had a little poop cling on but even that is rare. Also among my clients I have very few that ever need anal glands expressed. Probably about 1 a week at the most. I am a firm believer in 'if it's not broke, don't fix it'.

**Jenneversage64** · 11-05-09, 08:31 AM

I think that is what I will say to my clients. I agree, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Perfect!

**Helly** · 11-05-09, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Jenneversage64

I rather think God made dogs with self expressing glands. Am I wrong?

God didn't make dogs. God made wolves, man made dogs. And one problem with some of these man made creatures is we've bred them to be so small that sometimes things do not work they way God intended.

Toy beeds are tiny. They have tiny little ducts to drain tears from their eyes. They have tiny little ducts to pass the fluid collected in the anal sacs. And sometimes the fluid isn't very fluid, it's more like paste. And sometimes those ducts just are not large enough for the material to express naturally. Then they need help.

Personally, I wait until I see my dog scooting before I express. And Whiz is the only one that ever scoots. But he's all of 10 pounds. Oli is almost three times his size. So it doesn't surprise me that he never needs help.

I work in a vet clinic, and do internal expression. If I didn't work in a vet clinic I wouldn't. I probably wouldn't do them at all unless requested.

And, last of all, I get really bent about vets deciding what our job is. "My vet said to express the anal glands." or "My vet said you should pluck his ears." When that vet signs my paycheck he/she can tell me what I should do.