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  1. #1

    Default help grooming an English Setter

    So, I do know how to groom a setter. My problem is this setter is coming in for the second time on thursday. He has an extremely wooly coat and so much of it! yes he is neutered and previous groom I believe clipped his back once. Owner pretty much wants a modified show clip, no clipping back. So we broke out all our tools; thinning shears, classic stripper, coat king. It did not put a dent in that dogs coat. emailed the breeder and he said just go in uner the coat with the thinning shears. I did do that to an extent, but was not very confident about that because of how much coat the dog has. Any setter people that have any good advice on a wooly setter?
    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    SE Wash St
    Posts
    2,120

    Default

    Why does the owner not want the back clipped? It's not a show dog, and that neuter coat can be a "B". Maybe the last groomer shaved it really short. You can get the look by using a long blade or a snap on comb first to get rid of a lot of the junk. Then go over it with thinners. If she insists on a show cut, I do hope you are charging for all that extra time.
    Old groomers never die, they just go at a slower clip.

    Groom on!!!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Manhattan NY, NJ
    Posts
    1,293

    Default pumice

    you can try a stone too but honest those wooly coats are tough to strip once they have been clippered.
    Not worth it for you but mostly for the dog

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    869

    Default

    Are you using an HV to get through that coat? Maybe a good de shed conditioner will help too. Also,, any hand stripping knives around? Coats like that are so tough.. If I were you, I would really try to talk to him about clipping the back, even if it's just with a wahl ss comb. It will smooth it out nicely imo..

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    5,059

    Default To me

    Modified show cut does not mean show cut. Modified means to change it as necessary, and in this case, it sounds sensible to clip the back.

    However, I'm a big fan of doing so with skip-tooth blades. A good #5 skip, or even a #7, would probably leave the kind of look they want, plus blend nicely into the long furnishings (much more natural than how an F blade does).

    That's my 2 cents.

  6. #6

    Default thanks

    IDK why she does not want the back clippid, I think its her breeder. Tried talking her into it last time and did not work. She put me in touch with the breeder through email. I thought the breeder would side with me knowing the dog is neuterd and has such an overly fluffy coat. The breeder emailed me and the owner back and said he would not clip the back, ugh! I would like to work with the owner, and charge her for it, but I did not even put a dent in that coat last time.
    Auntie Beth, I had the pumice stone out also, I did try it, did absotutely nothing. Would work better as a finisher. jlb0831, HV does not do anything, wish it would!
    I will talk to her again about clipping, but please keep the thoughts coming!
    Thanks everyone

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    SE Wash St
    Posts
    2,120

    Default

    Maybe the breeder would like to groom this dog. Another thing you might try, and I would take some length off first with a long comb, is to pin a towel on the back (sacking, toweling) while the coat is still damp to help it lay flat.Let it dry that way, then finish. Do charge for your time.
    Old groomers never die, they just go at a slower clip.

    Groom on!!!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    363

    Default

    Which coat king did you use? I would probably start with the coarse one then try a medium one and end up with a fine one. The coarseness or fineness of the coat king is determined by the spacing of the teeth —*it's been a while since I was grooming on a daily basis, so I have not looked at my coat kings in a long time, but if I remember right, for a regular width coat king, the one I considered "coarse" had 6 or 8 teeth in it; the "medium" had about 12 teeth, I think; and the "fine" one had something like 16 or 18 teeth —*they were pretty close together. I found that different coat kings worked better on different coats, so I usually tried all three until I got the results I was looking for.

    Also, I used to groom some Gordon Setters in competition (I took one to Intergroom year that had such a thick, curly coat that it rivaled the Irish Water Spaniel next to me!) and on those thicker coats you can thinning shear the heck out of them. Using coarse thinning shears (less teeth, spaced wider apart with deep notches in the teeth) I would insert my thinning shears under the coat, make one cut and then move over a bit and do the same thing. I would do this over a large area, then brush the whole area to see how it looked and then do it again, until I got the look I was going for.

    You also might be able to get away with taking some of the length off with a skip tooth #4 or #5 or a snap-on comb, then thinning and stripping the coat to get the desired effect. I used to groom a red English Cocker that had been clipped too many times to bring his coat all the way back to a natural coat. I would coat king him and thin as much as I could and then finish with a #4 skip to even it up. And sacking the coat also helps.

    Good luck with him.

  9. #9

    Default

    thank kputman, very detailed! Used the med coat king, don't have the fine tooth. I am going to try talking the owner into letting me go over his back with the clipper. I am also going to try the thinning shears. To tell you the truth, I feel like his back is all fluff, I don't know what is under it! I feel if I thin, there wont be anything underneath. Also, there is so much fluff, I think it will be very hard to keep it uniform down the whole back. IDK. I want to make the owner happy and would like to groom the dog the correct way. I have been grooming for over 20 years, don't know why I am letting this dog stump me! I will try to get a pic of this fuzzy beast!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,807

    Default

    I know the owner said no clip, but just incase you are able to talk the owner in to it in the future I just wanted to chime in that I like to use snap on combs on the back even more then the skip blades. It comes our really nice and the owners all rave about how it looks. It doesnt have that "Clipped" Look. works great on Gordon setters too!

    Even the ones who want it really short, I will still use the wahl really short combs. (blue one)
    The most popular seems to be the wahl peach comb.

    just a thought.

    Personally if he is as wooly as he sounds I hope you charge accordingly because it is going to take you a LONG time to card him out

  11. #11

    Default not so bad

    so the first time this dog walked through the door(4weeks ago) He looked like a wooly mamouth! When he left he looked like a pin head. Head smooth and wooly back when he left. looked like we did nothing to his back.
    Yesterday he came back, he did not look so bad! He did not walk through the door like a wooly mamouth! So it is working Yesterday we used Mars #20, and thinning shears, and pinned him. came out better than I thought! sorry, no pic.
    Thanks for all the help

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    8,475

    Default

    I feel for you. My longhaired Dachshund, Oli, has a TON of neuter coat. And to be honest, the thing that works best on him is to use a flea comb (boy does that pull neuter coat!) then pull on the latex gloves and just pull out what's left. Clipping just leaves you with short neuter coat. Thinning looks OK at first, but it comes back with a vengeance, and removes more than just neuter coat. Ditto for the Coat King; it cuts out coat that you might want to keep.

    Lucky for me, Oli isn't quite as large as a setter, LOL. He's a standard, and a big boy, but he's not THAT big! Why couldn't it have been Whiz, my mini? But noooooo. Little Whiz has no neuter coat at all.

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