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maggie4paws
06-26-07, 09:56 PM
my new client has a poodle and she told me that the breeder that she purchased the dog from.. recommended only using dawn dish soap to wash her poodle. and she also told her to wash the dog weekly.. my question is.. isnt dawn DS to high in PH for dogs skin and coat? and washing weekly is a bit to much!! i think.

blupiiglet
06-27-07, 01:05 AM
One of the vets I worked for would only allow the dogs washed in dish soap, I can't remember the brand name. We never had any problems. I've used it on my own dogs myself, no problems arose. My cocker used to get weekly wash and grooms and my little schnoodle and her son get washed weekly. Neither developed itchy or irritated skin. (They also tolerate getting dyed without problems.) I think it just depends on the animal, some have more sensitive skin than others.

mommasita
06-27-07, 03:33 AM
I have used palmalive and dawn as a pre wash just to help break down the grease and grime then follow with a good regular bath. It works good on cockers but I have used it on poodles too. As for washing every week i dont reccomend that to anyone except in the cases of severe skin allergies.

Jadenlea
06-27-07, 03:47 AM
My guess is she recommends dawn because it wont soften the coat. Almost every professional (and even people shampoo) has conditioners and vitamins ect that will soften the coat. There are of course special texturizing shampoos for poodles but sometimes those old school breeders like to do their old school stuff and try out these new products.

Allan
06-27-07, 03:47 AM
If your new client is coming to you,they won't need to bathe the dog,right?
Using Dawn as part of an emergency mix for skunks or as a degreaser to remove goop is ok. Once a week is ok to bathe any dog providing they are rinsed well and a good conditioner is used so as not to dry them out.
Tell them to keep the Dawn in the kitchen sink!
just my opinion.

geddy
06-27-07, 05:09 AM
I have never heard the dawn dish soap thing either. I hope someone knows the answer to that one. I have a Boykin Spaniel and the "doggy allergist doctor" told me to bathe him once a week and to keep his hair fairly short. So once a week it is for mine.

diamienono
06-27-07, 06:45 AM
I use Dawn as a pre wash for really nasty dogs.

dankeshan
06-27-07, 06:53 AM
most dogs should not bathed, and really do not need to be bathed weekly. poodles are a breed that should, expecially if the owner keeps the hair longer and it gets matted. there are other breed, like bichons, malteses, shihs, that should also be done weekly if the hair is long and gets matted. if owners brush, usually they can lengthen the time between grooming (good if you cant afford weekly grooming, which i understand is expensive). it does strip naturals, but if good shampoo is used, and conditioner is not uverused, the coat should stay in good condition.

as far as dawn shampoo goes, i personally would not use it all over a dog, unless the dog was seriously disgusting. the only dog i have ever used it on would come in every 2 months and reek of cigerettes. his coat felt like it had been bathed in ash. dawn was the only thing that got it out, somewhat. i am not much of an advocate of using non dog shampoos and such while grooming. yes, some dogs do not have as sensitive skin as others, and will probably never have any problems with due to the dawn soap, but it is very strong soap for a dog that gets done weekly and isnt disgustingly dirty. oh yeah, did i mention its soap? no shampoo or conditioner, which means that while it may clean, it doesnt do much for the coat. however, it does help wonders for greasy ears.

i have not heard of any poodle breeders telling customers to use dawn soap. im honestly not sure of what i would do if someone requested that i bath a dog in only dawn soap.

azoci
06-27-07, 07:12 AM
Well, you have to remember...Dish soap is formulated to be gentle to the skin, we have our hands it in every day doing dishes...It's a great grease cutter and washes and rinses out well.

Show cat people use it on cats, kittens. It does kill fleas...

But it's off label for pets...and marketing hype for shampoos would tell you all the bad things...but really if you know your ingredients, it's pretty much the same stuff...but then most pet shampoos don't list the ingredients...and for that matter, neither do the dish soaps!

pamsbubblemobile.com

dankeshan
06-27-07, 08:10 AM
like i said, it will probably not kill your dog. and almost any shampoo will kill fleas if left on long enough. however, to only bath a dog in dish soap weekly? i dont think that would have long term benefits.

if it was meant for dogs, they would sell it at petco. if it were me, id keep the dish soap bathing to a minimum. i doubt there is anything in it that helps the coat

twodogs
06-27-07, 09:02 AM
I was taught to use dawn dish soap, baking soda and peroxide for skunk'd dogs but I wouldn't use it for a regualr bath every week

rapuzzled
06-27-07, 11:18 AM
my new client has a poodle and she told me that the breeder that she purchased the dog from.. recommended only using dawn dish soap to wash her poodle. and she also told her to wash the dog weekly.. my question is.. isnt dawn DS to high in PH for dogs skin and coat? and washing weekly is a bit to much!! i think.

I believe that the PH thing is an old wives tale.

As for the Dawn, I think that it won't hurt anything. I have used it to help cut grease on really icky dogs. I personally wouldn't want to use it every week on my dog, but if it's what the owner wants I would do it. I mean I use people shampoo per owners request on one dog.

Some people also warn about liability of using things that aren't labeled for use on pets. Personally, I still use several things, like mineral oil, but I just wanted to let you know.

Tzu-crazee
06-27-07, 11:20 AM
I too use dawn ,very minimal, only on those greasy cockers and some shihs, then I follow it with shampoo(dog) and espree's remoisture conditioner. It works for me, dogs coat is non greasy, smells good and is shiney. No problems. I also have used it on rescued cats and kittens to get rid of fleas.

goldiphlox
06-27-07, 12:20 PM
Well, you have to remember...Dish soap is formulated to be gentle to the skin, we have our hands it in every day doing dishes...It's a great grease cutter and washes and rinses out well.

Show cat people use it on cats, kittens. It does kill fleas...

But it's off label for pets...and marketing hype for shampoos would tell you all the bad things...but really if you know your ingredients, it's pretty much the same stuff...but then most pet shampoos don't list the ingredients...and for that matter, neither do the dish soaps!

pamsbubblemobile.com


i also know of a show cat person that uses liquid fabric softener on the cats instead of reg....creme rinse or conditioner.......i have to say.....we don't use it because we don't know if there would be any long term skin issues........but , those cats sure did come out nice.....and they would smell soooo good.

Admin
06-27-07, 12:42 PM
Based on my experience growing up in the grooming industry I can tell you that:

1) Before Dawn in the 1950's and 1960's groomers starting using Joy dish soap. Why? To cut the grease. Today's selection of shampoos compared to then is unimaginable, we had so little. A shampoo for grease cutting, no way. Many pets with long ear hair that dragged in grease and oil, and other spots on the body, were washed with Joy to cut the grease.

2) Dawn became more popular later.

3) Most groomers didn't bathe the entire pet in dish soap but instead treated motor oil and grease spots only. To be safe we tried not to let it soak in the skin but instead on the hair ends.

We never cut corners using dish soap as a replacement for shampoos. That markets terribly to customers in a pro salon or shop or mobile. It is always best to stay on the safe side and use products labeled for pet use whenever possible.

Where you cut ends in grooming and save TONS of money over the year is to learn productivity grooming. Grooming is labor intensive as we all know. As I've said before some stylists if you add it up can do a better, outstanding job in 25 minutes of finish styling than those that need 40 minutes, even more. Efficiency of body movement, efficiency making every stroke count, not wishy washy strokes (where we often begin, well all of us), make every snip of the scissors count. It's a beautiful thing to watch and why isn't there a video on this whole topic? Talk about savings. My stepfather did astounding work so fast it was unbelievable and if they had the coat, you could say show quality in a regular salon, FAST. Every thing he did, every move had a precise intent, and many others became trained that way. He was NOT rushing at all. Mellow guy. Talk about saving money. Time is money. Several dollars per pet savings...and I hope that someday this advanced training as a package will be developed.

mustluvdogs1
06-27-07, 02:35 PM
A lady in her 80s then or close to it 12 yrs ago washed all her show schnauzers every Sat night in Ivory dish soap. She had AKC champions too. Jax had dry flaky nskin fron a puppy, don't know if it was related. I have used Dawn for greasy Cockers. I once bathed a greasy cocker in a shower and the dog literally left black grease marks on the shower floor.! I have used the skunk mixture too. Now, I find Grimeinator on any dog and especially the white ones is best, and hey, made for dogs. Now, that we have dog products why not use them? Sure Dawn is cheap, but Grimeinator is the BEST for that problem.

desertdog
06-27-07, 03:45 PM
I worked at a petsomething a few years back and they used dawn as their flea shampoo. It did work. Not sure they should have been charging extra for a "dawn bath" without owner's knowledge.

WashaWasha
06-27-07, 04:51 PM
I know of a grooming shop (big one, in business for a LONG time) that uses dawn on EVERY dog. If a dog has itchies reported by the owner, the next time they get hypoallergenic shampoo. It's followed by very perfumy conditioner.

I personally find it way too harsh for a weekly bath. I have cockers (granted mine are groomed regularly) and I find it strips the coat too much. It's great on really greasy dogs who have gone too long without a grooming, but I wouldn't use it once a week.

Helly
06-27-07, 04:59 PM
Wild life rescue organizations use Dawn to clean up animals after an oil spill. In fact, it's the only thing they use to wash these animals. And if any of you know birds, you know how sensitive they are to everything. Much more sensitive than cats. So if it's safe to use on birds, it's safe to use on dogs and cats. The key is to remember how concentrated it is, and dilute it with a LOT of water first. Think of how much you add to a basin of water when you wash dishes. That's how much you want to dilute it.

The pH thing? If you add a tablespoon of any type of soap to a gallon of water, just how much do you think the pH of the water will be affected? There's a lot of hype over pH of shampoos, but honestly, if you know how shampoo works, they're all pretty close in pH. And also remember, the shampoo isn't going to remain on the dog for any length of time. You're going to rinse it off with a lot of water. And how many of us worry about the pH of our water?

The biggest issue is liability and using it off lable. It's not labled for use on pets. And there are lots and lots of products that are labled for use on pets. I'm not saying use it or don't use it. I'm saying be aware and make an informed decision. If you consider the risk to be minimal, and you want to assume the risk, it's your decision.

RoosMom
06-27-07, 05:41 PM
Helly and Pam are absolutely right. Yeah, guess that's all I had to say.lol

FurFeathersFins
06-27-07, 05:58 PM
It is so interesting reading all of these replies. I do have to say that as someone who is not yet a groomer ( I start school in October) and dealing one on one with these issues yet, it sounds like these cockers are a gang of greasers...watch out John Travolta!

SpikeyTheYorkie
06-27-07, 07:33 PM
most dogs should not bathed, and really do not need to be bathed weekly.

Where'd ya get that info? I thought that was in the past, but our shampoos are very good now. I have bathed my dog once a week since I've owned him, 5 years now. Not a problem at all.

Tammy in Utah

ferret
06-27-07, 07:57 PM
Dawn dish washing soap even has on their label right now "rescuing wildlife for over 25 years" right on the front of the bottle. With a picture of a duck and a seal. Dawn works great to cut through really grimey stuff on pets too. But I don't think I'd bathe a poodle with it "every week."

RoosMom
06-27-07, 09:17 PM
Let's face it, folks, as far as the doggie hair-care products have come, there are some things that just work better- Dawn is definitely better than any 'made for dogs' degreaser I've ever tried. I don't think it's because of cost that people keep using it, either. I pay about $45 a gallon for my 'regular hypo' shampoo, and I never skimp on product costs IF the product works. No matter how cheap, or expensive Dawn is, I think it will be a long time before it's out of alot of groomer's arsenals for one reason- it works well.

baddog
06-27-07, 09:27 PM
Just be sure to put mineral oil in the eyes before using it!!!!!!! An old school groomer told me ivory liquid soap was the best "shampoo" he ever used, and he tried them all!

Mamabearwith2
06-27-07, 09:55 PM
When I first started bathing dogs about 20 years ago, (WOW!) the owner of the shop would buy nothing but Polmolive dish soap. My hands got so red and irritated! (Ow!) Glad there's good shampoos out there now. BUT I still use a little dash of Dawn if I have a greasy cat, Cocker or gross stinky!

pawsforthought
06-27-07, 10:25 PM
I was taught to use dawn on all paws. I now love the outcome of Eqyss Micro Tek so I only use Dawn for "Live fleas" but then I do a second bath with Micro Tek.
Had a former Parent Club President of a Standard Poodle Club that bathed a Standard Poodle with me and she told me she uses Dawn on all her Poodles. The dog that she was working on turned out great for scissoring. He had an awesome coat to begin with though.

sheilabgroomer
06-28-07, 02:52 AM
I also have used Dawn pretty regularly for very greasy/dirty dogs as a first shampoo. Not because it is cheap but because it works!! I have however pretty much stopped since I have discovered Grimenator.....that is an awesome degreaser/dirty dog shampoo! I now just use Dawn on the super greasy ears (like from medications) or for a skunk remedy (when the time comes...lol).

alabamagroomer
06-28-07, 06:22 AM
I actually use Dawn a lot. It started when my vet (an exotic specialist) told me the benefits of dawn - safe, gentle, no-tear, cuts grease, cleans well, etc. I started using it ony my dogs (St Poodle, Giant Schnauzer and mutt) and have had to bathe less and they smell cleaner. I also use it on my personal exotics (birds, tortoise, etc.) It is great for dogs with sensitive skin or wounds, too!

k9stylist1968
06-28-07, 08:19 AM
I've found the anti-bacterial Apple-scented Dawn is the BEST on those funky dogs that spend half their summer in the pond.... Or for the 'emergency' grooms where the dog rolled in manure or some dead critter. NO other product, even if it makes the dog look clean and feel soft will get that odor completely out....

rapuzzled
06-28-07, 11:04 AM
I've found the anti-bacterial Apple-scented Dawn is the BEST on those funky dogs that spend half their summer in the pond.... Or for the 'emergency' grooms where the dog rolled in manure or some dead critter. NO other product, even if it makes the dog look clean and feel soft will get that odor completely out....

I like the apple scented as well. It smells great, and I have found that it works a little better than the other scent.

Gracy Rose
06-28-07, 04:03 PM
Speaking of human products. I use Listerine for hot spots and was even told to use it dilluted as a great ear cleaner. I don't use it as an ear cleaner but for HOT SPOTS... OMG, it is awesome.

dankeshan
06-28-07, 05:24 PM
yes dawn works great on greasy dogs, and this about all i would use it for. as someone said above, Grimeinator is one of the only degreaser shampoos that works, so i would much rather use that over dawn.

but just b/c it works good on greasy dogs doesnt mean it should be used for every grooming on a dog with a coat that is in healthy condition.this is just my opinion. i know other groomers swear by it, and all i can do is not work for them.

to answer someone above to my "most dogs should not be bathed weekly". well most dogs should not be bathed that much. dogs with short coats do not need to be done that much (ifyou look in a breed book some of them will say these dogs can handle being bathed a couple of times a year). the only dogs i will say NEED to be bathed weekly are dogs with long hair that matts easily (poodles, shih tzus, bichons, malteses, etc and these is assuming they have a full coat). yes, if you use top of the line shamppoos and conditioners, you may not experiance any problems with a dogs coat, but not everyone has the time/money to do that. so when someone asks, this is what i tell them

Helly
06-28-07, 08:01 PM
to answer someone above to my "most dogs should not be bathed weekly". well most dogs should not be bathed that much. dogs with short coats do not need to be done that much (ifyou look in a breed book some of them will say these dogs can handle being bathed a couple of times a year).

Breed books will often tell you a lot of things that ain't necessarily so. Like the Bichon book that said you should wait until your pup is a year old to have it groomed. Or the books that say you should never have your (insert breed name here) clipped.

I know a lot of short coated dogs that need to be bathed weekly. They're very greasy, and if you don't bathe them, they stink like rancid coat oil. Some beagles, bassets and Rhodesians fall into this catagory.

Others might need to be bathed that often because of what they do, like the farm dogs that hang out in the pig pen, or the ones that like to play in the swamp. They're dirty, musty smelling, or full of pond scum and duck weed.

If they stink, they need a bath.

Oh yeah, I did some digging on Dawn. The pH was listed as 6.8. That's almost neutral. That's not even close to being too high for a dog's skin. Even if pH of soap was all that important, which it really isn't.

SpikeyTheYorkie
06-28-07, 08:11 PM
(ifyou look in a breed book some of them will say these dogs can handle being bathed a couple of times a year).

Yes I've seen some of these "breed books" and they are VERY scary. I wouldn't trust many of these breed books. Sorry if I offended anyone, but I just don't agree with that at all.

Tammy in Utah

SpikeyTheYorkie
06-28-07, 08:45 PM
Breed books will often tell you a lot of things that ain't necessarily so. Like the Bichon book that said you should wait until your pup is a year old to have it groomed. Or the books that say you should never have your (insert breed name here) clipped.

I know a lot of short coated dogs that need to be bathed weekly. They're very greasy, and if you don't bathe them, they stink like rancid coat oil. Some beagles, bassets and Rhodesians fall into this catagory.

Others might need to be bathed that often because of what they do, like the farm dogs that hang out in the pig pen, or the ones that like to play in the swamp. They're dirty, musty smelling, or full of pond scum and duck weed.

If they stink, they need a bath.

Oh yeah, I did some digging on Dawn. The pH was listed as 6.8. That's almost neutral. That's not even close to being too high for a dog's skin. Even if pH of soap was all that important, which it really isn't.

Spike looks like a werewolf, or a dirty OES after a week without a bath. He really shows it. And he's got greasy ears.

I trust breed books like I trust "Doodle" breeders. "Ohhh, no, they don't shed and they don't need to be groomed but once a year. They're hypo-allergenic and very low-maintenance." Mmm hmmm.

Tammy in Utah

dankeshan
06-28-07, 10:52 PM
dont get me wrong, i dont read these books and take everything as set in stone (most of them are so old anyway).

under normal circumstances, a lot of dogs do not need to be bathed weekly. farm dogs who get into burrs, dogs with longer hair, dogs with skin issues, etc, are one thing and i agree they require more bathing/grooming than normal.

i also think most salons (unfortunatly not all) use good enough products and bath well enough that the coat stays normal . i have a lot of clients that weekly bathed their dogs themselves, and complained of dryness and itching. even with weekly baths it went away and i think it was just because we bathed correctly.

i personally do not think it will "hurt" a dog to use dawn, but i personally just wouldnt use it for everyday baths if the dog wasnt greasy.

sorry for this annoyingly long post